Is anyone else angry and embarrassed right now ?

[Sapphiresunrise]

For the developed and resourced country that we are, we are potentially going to be overtaking Italy and Spain by the looks of things.
Australia and other nations have death rates in double figures. They were smart to close borders and even close regions. Canada the same. Denmark, etc. The list goes on. South Korea have the situation under control.
We were warned about this. I feel like majority of those deaths could have been avoided.

Washington Post estimates that the death count in Wuhan could have been upwards of 40,000:

www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/chinese-families-should-be-sweeping-graves-now-but-thousands-still-havent-buried-their-dead/2020/04/03/5a6daa50-7234-11ea-ad9b-254ec99993bc_story.html

Very sad read

I'm neither angry nor embarrassed.

I'm enjoying my life and appreciating what I have.

OP I was saying the exact same thing over 2 weeks ago. I had the symptoms of CV at the time and was horrified by the complete inept response of the government.

This is is my thread I am so angry with our government www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3847012-i-am-so-angry-with-our-government.

Over 2 weeks later and the NHS still has inadequate PPE and testing is nowhere near what it should be.

Over 600 people died today and set to increase. This could have been avoided.

Clavinova

Boris is advised primarily by Cummings who employed a completely unqualified “forecaster” that he found online who believes in Euthanasia. Forgive me if I find that distasteful.

Is Dominic Cummings advising Sweden as well?//

Sweden has extremely high taxes, standard of living, trust in govt and compliance. It’s not comparable to the U.K. Their prisons, care homes, hospitals are well funded and super organised. They will manage.

the purpose of testing is so that people who test positive can self-isolate as much as possible
I mean, the government did say to act and self isolate as if you had it if you exhibited the symptoms.
In terms of data, it doesn’t help, but if people actually followed the advice, in terms of stopping the spread, it would have had the same effect.
Arguably, it should have been more efficient because people would Isolde straight away rather than going to get tested and awaiting results.

So logically, I get what they were trying to do, and the selfish knobs who wouldn’t be told were the ones who ruined it.

I think their focus is, and has been for a while, on the anti body test.

I think that’s what they’re banking on, and that’ll be the game changer.

If anything would cheer me up atm it’s Tory’s arguing that the govt shouldn’t close borders because we should “trust Boris” never thought I would get to see that. Ffs

Boris is advised primarily by Cummings who employed a completely unqualified “forecaster” that he found online who believes in Euthanasia

After seeing a relative die after being on the Liverpool care pathway, I believe in euthanasia as well.
What’s your fucking point?

@goldpartyhat - I never mentioned population!!! The original poster said "both countries are much larger and more sparsely populated.

I was responding to the "much larger" part. Please read threads properly before rushing in.

I don't see what else could have been done. Not everyone is listening to the instructions even now. This weekend will be a shitshow of 'police brutality' and fucking idiots enjoying the weather. And that is with strict, enforceable rules in place.

2 deaths locally to me this week from domestic abuse.

My mam and auntie both isolated for the last 4 weeks and probably months more and terrified. Depressed and anxious. Dm is skint cos she still works and being fucked about by her boss. Daunts existing health conditions getting worse as she darent go to the GPs.

FIL at the opposite end of the scale and has no fucks to give about lockdown. Currently in hospital at 74 with confirmed covid19 and his girlfriend at 78 kicking ofg because she isn't allowed out due to FIL testing positive. Apparently lockdown is a load of bollocks and the buses are still running so she wants to go shopping.

The figures will be horrendous. But they don't seem to be saying what age and what health conditions people have. How much higher than the average year or bad year for flu will the final numbers be? Are we risking young, fit nhs staff to intubate people like FIL who is 74, had 2 strokes and the likelihood is we would lose him a lot sooner than later anyway? My aunt, god love her has serious health conditions, life threatening which is why she is sheltered but just because we can maybe save these people should we? And should we only be counting the deaths that are outside of the normal? Or deaths under the average life span? Do you include the figures of people who died from cancer with covid as covid deaths or cancer deaths?

Lockdown is so deadly in itself. And as I said fil is in hospital now with covid. I just can't see what else could have been done.

WhO advice is not to close borders

Yes - the head of the WHO said this;

"Travel restrictions can cause more harm than good by hindering info-sharing, medical supply chains and harming economies."

Wasn’t the problem his believe in eugenics not euthanasia?

'Boris is advised primarily by Cummings who employed a completely unqualified “forecaster” that he found online who believes in Euthanasia. Forgive me if I find that distasteful.'

Again, do you think the CSO, CMO, SAGE, PHE are all advised by Cummings too? If so you are deluded. There is no way scientific and medical experts would stand by and go along with your bizarre conspiracy theory.

I'm no fan of the government but this isn't something that can be easily dealt with by any government.

Comparisons to other countries are pointless, there are different population size, demographics and density, then you have different thresholds for testing and ways of reporting deaths. And you also have lying and cover ups (China, Iran).

Comparisons to China (a totalitarian regime) and New Zealand (an isolated country of only 5M people) are especially pointless.

' anything would cheer me up atm it’s Tory’s arguing that the govt shouldn’t close borders because we should “trust Boris” never thought I would get to see that. Ffs'

it is nothing to do with Tories . It is shit that you are using a global pandemic to spout this crap. I'm embarrassed for you.

Frouby

I can see your point. Because if this lockdown is to “protect the vulnerable “ but the elderly and infirm are being refused life saving treatment based on their age and underlying conditions AND people undergoing cancer treatment etc are denied treatment AND NHS staff are denied essential PPE then WTF is going on?

I said to my boss it would have been cheaper to get all at risk /shielded groups to stay at the ritz or a seaside hotel and be given room service and treated like kings for the duration than to crash the economy AND deny them treatment? Nothing about this situation makes any sense to me.
But at the same time I am following lockdown.
There is no STRATEGY to this govt.
They are responding to social media instead of acting like responsible adults.

Wasn’t the problem his believe in eugenics not euthanasia?

Probably, but people on here won’t let a little thing like facts stop them spreading their bullshit.

I’m also getting fed up of people throwing the eugenics word around, when what they mean is social Darwinism.

Eugenics means selectively breeding a population with desired traits, it doesn’t mean ‘I believe in survival of the fittest’

If anything would cheer me up atm it’s Tory’s arguing that the govt shouldn’t close borders because we should “trust Boris” never thought I would get to see that.

The plural is “Tories”, not “Tory’s”.

Amazing how some people present themselves as experts in epidemiology and yet don’t seem to understand basic grammar...

@MangoFeverDream
“You are a ridiculous person. Oh the police were just visiting some shit-talking doctors for no reason at all 🙄 but they were totally on top of things despite not listening to and even punishing medical staff”

First, in an argument play the ball not the person. It’s basic good manners and also the only way which any kind of civilized debate can proceed.
Second, please do not construct straw man arguments. I never claimed China has ever been “totally on top of things”. I did claim that China’s overall response, taken as a whole, was more effective, consistent and coherent than that of the British government. I would argue that it is hard to counter that given the respective figures. Now, of course there are/were obstacles that may have prevented the U.K. implementing certain policies. But, many of the obstacles have been of the British government’s own making.

China made a couple of serious early missteps - Britain has made several - which is less forgiveable given the weeks and weeks of time Britain - a developed nation with ample resources had to sit back and come up with an effective and coherent strategy.

Random18 Sorry, I mean per capita obviously. UK deaths are currently more than double in Ireland (republic) per capita. Our advice was significantly earlier than the UK. I have family there and it was astonishing how the UK were carrying on as normal while we were in lockdown.

Why would I be embarrassed? I'm not the PM.

@eaglejulesk It should have read and/or, but I though anyone would realise that. Look at the numbers re NZ. The rate of transmission and numbers affected are obviously going to be far less in such a tiny population.

To say NZ and Oz are doing better than us because our government is terrible (no worse than some, and better than others) is stupidity and takes no account of population sparseness. Don't you remember the picture of Bondi beach?

“I'm no fan of the government but this isn't something that can be easily dealt with by any government.”

The UK started off with one strategy (mitigation), realized it was absolute folly, then abruptly changed to another. It wasted around two valuable weeks. This has been reported everywhere from the BBC to The NY Times to Reuters. It is not conspiracy or “the science evolving” or “timing is everything”. It is cold, hard fact.
No, it cannot be dealt with easily. But the UK government started the battle with one dud leg to the political choice of starving the NHS of funds for a decade, and then immediately proceeded to shoot itself i the foot via its early doomed strategy of “mitigation”

Clavinova I think the WHO said this because China were pissed Trump closed the doors to them so quickly and isn’t opening up anytime soon. Watch back some of the earlier WHO press conferences where they pretty much said China were absolutely amazing at controlling this disease and that everything they did was working. Meanwhile China was lying about the true numbers of dead and infected and the WHO believed them.

CendrillonSings

If anything would cheer me up atm it’s Tory’s arguing that the govt shouldn’t close borders because we should “trust Boris” never thought I would get to see that.

The plural is “Tories”, not “Tory’s”.

Amazing how some people present themselves as experts in epidemiology and yet don’t seem to understand basic grammar... wink///

I never presented myself as an expert in anything. I quoted a report on a 2016 pandemic simulation run for COBRA which this govt chose to completely ignore. Maybe because the Tory party has spent more time and energy in fighting each other’s career ambitions for 10 years than giving a dime about their actual tax paying citizens. This crisis has just emphasised that.

I did claim that China’s overall response, taken as a whole, was more effective, consistent and coherent than that of the British government. I would argue that it is hard to counter that given the respective figures

Wouldn't it have been more effective & consistent for China to ban wet markets after SARS as opposed to just a temporary ban?