Is anyone else angry and embarrassed right now ?

[Sapphiresunrise]

For the developed and resourced country that we are, we are potentially going to be overtaking Italy and Spain by the looks of things.
Australia and other nations have death rates in double figures. They were smart to close borders and even close regions. Canada the same. Denmark, etc. The list goes on. South Korea have the situation under control.
We were warned about this. I feel like majority of those deaths could have been avoided.

Cam on the money there. The screw up meant we lost valuable time in slowing infections.

@AnyName1
The UK was following its idiotic strategy of mitigation. Yes, people in Ireland couldn’t believe it. The country was in semi lockdown while the UK was carrying on with mass concerts, marathons, full stadiums etc. I Remember the advice at the time “oh we are not really worried about stadiums as you can only pass the virus to the person you are standing right next to”. Fucking shocking stuff. It really was. No way do they get to whitewash their early stupidity.

What other options are there?

Keep the entire world locked down for 2 years?

It’s horrible that this is happening and that China ignored their doctors warnings and the world lost it’s shot at containing it.

For the those spouting lock down sooner / longer, what would that solve long term? The virus is here to stay. Let’s say we locked down and kept it out totally, we’d have to try and keep it out until there was a vaccine whilst the rest of the world built up immunity and moved on.

I don’t blame our government. I blame China’s.

'The UK started off with one strategy (mitigation), realized it was absolute folly, then abruptly changed to another. It wasted around two valuable weeks.'

No, they didn't realise it was 'folly'. They always said they would escalate amd do the right thing at the right time. Didn't you see any of the press conferences?

Deaths are sadly unavoidable. The nhs capacity has been controlled it seems successfully at the moment

Cam China are going to benefit massively out of this aren't they?

They convinced the WHO initially that there was little human to human transmission.

Do you know the wonderful thing about the UK?
We can have this discussion without fear. We can say what we think without fear of disappearing.

Is that the same for your beloved China?

@Blossomad I can only assume that the Italy figures got too scary and the potential fall out if they 'let' 250k vulnerable die wasn't that palatable. I think from the start it should have been a very strict lockdown of vulnerable groups with full support complete with barrier controls, a separate 'clean' pool of medical staff etc to tend to them then a series of strict then relaxed social distancing rules for the rest of us.

The sheltering isn't going to work. Fil is a good example. He seriously only stopped going into town daily when they eventually closed the pubs and bookies. My best friend works in homecare. She has 8 on her run, goes 4 times a day to them. All 2 person calls as they are all intimate care and 2 person handling. Definitely all in shielded category. All regularly being visited by external family members because it's allowed cos they are vulnerable. The point of the care packages they have is so they don't have to rely on family for their needs.

Fil will be in hospital 3 to 4 weeks probably. He should have been sheltering but doesn't fucking listen. Neither does his girlfriend. Nothing wrong mentally with either just sheer arrogance and selfishness.

But if I had physically locked them in against their wills can imagine the uproar? Or if the NHS refuse to treat them and put their own lives at risk to save someone who has blatantly failed to follow the rules? Should the carehome staff be expected to provide end of life care for less than £9 an hour with no PPE or training? Should anybody be trying to save an 80 year old?

And is saving those lives worth the lives of others who will miss treatment for curable diseases etc?

I just find it incredible that the government chose to take advice from the countries top doctors and scientists rather than the experts on mumsnet!

I think the WHO said this because China were pissed Trump closed the doors to them so quickly and isn’t opening up anytime soon.

Singapore closed their borders on the 31/01 against the advice from WHO

Watch back some of the earlier WHO press conferences where they pretty much said China were absolutely amazing at controlling this disease and that everything they did was working.

Taiwan has been more of a success story than China without such draconian measures as they learnt a lot from SARS, even though the WHO doesn't recognise them & they are excluded from emergency meetings.

Meanwhile China was lying about the true numbers of dead and infected and the WHO believed them.

Do you think the WHO really believed them & wasn't put under any pressure? China are obsessed with positive PR.

@candle18 This exactly. It’s shocking really....

The WHO had no choice but to massage their ego because otherwise China would have slammed the door shut on any international cooperation in allowing WHO inspectors in to assess the true scale of what was happening.

Sadly BoJo and his band of merry men didn’t read between the lines and his complacency will forever be a tarnish on his record of being PM for the history books. In 10 or 20 years when this is part of the history curriculum or health and safety lessons, they will lament at how little we did in advance of this.

I am amazed at some of things the govt is not doing- not quarantine or self isolation for people returning to the uk?
My dh is currently in quarantine in China. He went straight from the airport to a processing area then to the quarantine facility. He has no symptoms but will stay there for 14 days.
Another missed opportunity.

Well if the WHO is going to massage the ego ofnChines govt rather than saving lives, especially in countries where CV will be absolutely devastating (and i don't mean the UK) then it's not fit for purpose.

That may be an unpopular view on Mumsnet where the WHO can do no wrong............

Shanghai that horse has long bolted.

Although if we do suppress and go back to containment (I don't imagine that is the strategy) then perhaps we should do that. But really what is the point.

Back in Feb Australian citizens entering from China had to self isolate for 14 days.
What did the the uk do?
Gave passengers a leaflet instructing them to call 111 if they developed symptoms.

yes, so many horses have bolted.
Having lived through the start of this in China, I could not believe what was happening here eg large events going ahead

Shanghai I think the UK's main problems have come from Italy.

It is what it is. Looking back isn't going to change things.

We just need to get through this with the NHS being able to cope and as few people as possible dying.

That is the reason I am following the lockdown.

I accept I will most likely get CV. I am ok with that. I don't want my parents at risk.

And if they do get it i want them to get it at a time the NHS can give them the treatment they deserve.

I don’t really give any gucks about politics in regard to this issue. I do care that people are given reliable information in order to protect their families heath. I don’t think that that is an unreasonable requirement at any situation.

@goldpartyhat - if you meant and/or then that is what you should have written. "and" by itself does not mean and/or, and writing one thing but meaning another and expecting people to guess is pathetic.

I do remember the pictures of Bondi beach, but I am writing from the perspective of NZ, not Australia, and Bondi beach is not in NZ. My main criticism of the UK's response is the not closing the borders, which even you must see was foolish.

I heard someone on the news recently say "don't follow in the footsteps of the UK, take the lockdown seriously" - says it all really.

It occurs to me that potentially and in theory the government could get data from people's phones which would give a good picture of their movements during the lockdown period, does that sound right? If so could there be consequences for people who really took the piss, who really caned those loopholes, or even just did whatever the hell they fancied regardless?

eagle was it a Brit saying don't follow the UK?

Everyone I know is taking the lockdown seriously.

We don't really know yet if it will work or not. We are what 10 days into it.

And as I mentioned above, closing borders is not the advice of the WHO.

It may be that it is something we should have done, but if we had we would have been ignoring the advice of the WHO.

That is something the UK has been heavily criticised for from all directions, but it does seem to be ok for other countries to ignore WHO advice.

Having lived through the start of this in China
Wowzer ShanghaiDiva you were there at the ....birth😳
I bet you've got some tales to tell😳

Some are of us were a bit distracted in February but forced into isolation for a while and not had time to recover before lockdown.
3weeks ago our parks,countryside and seaside town were crowded with people ignoring all warnings to social distancing and forcing the lockdown.Please don't repeat that this weekend as what we are dealing with in the hospitals today is what happened then.

Holding it seems such a long time ago since my county was flooded.

Sweden is still not on lockdown now, but the media in some countries seem to be too busy bashing the Uk (who've been in lockdown since 23rd) to notice.

Oh hi Shanghai how nice of you to show up, hope you’re keeping well. Look at the mess we are in now eh! Seems like only yesterday we were trying to get people’s attention about this catastrophe and yet that was what, we’ll over a month ago?

How do you feel now many governments are questioning the narrative from China about their ‘official’ numbers being fiddled with?