Sweden, could we do it the swedish way?

[SQuueze]

Maybe they have just got lucky but they aren't in complete lockdown. There is social distancing and other measures in place. But with masks, not coughing on people, a few rules, could we make it work?

Yes, and lets see what happens in Spain in 2 weeks.

My Swedish friend is very angry about the way his government have/are handling CV.
He lives in a quiet, rural area, so far unaffected by the virus (he thinks) but is viewing the expected rush to the many holiday homes with much anxiety. He reminded me that in some cities, such as Malmö, there's many thousands of residents who go out of their way to NOT comply with any regulations the government brings in.

Wow as some actually in lockdown in Spain of course the numbers are still rising it can take up to 2 weeks for symptoms to show then 7-14 days to get over or die from the virus, we are currently in the thick of it. Spain,Italy are not a comparison for how it doesn’t work they are a warning on how deadly and infectious this is

The letter the Italian wrote saying this is what the uk will look like is true, it is too late for the uk the aim is to minimize deaths did no one read that they are going to take ventilators away from people even if they are recovering if they are elderly or have a serious health condition?

Maybe Sweden won’t be hit as bad due to many working from home but it is too late now for the us to seek any alternatives except a stricter quarantine measures.

Gorse not unlike here when we had advice only

No, different society, different attitudes and sense of responsibility.

Spain like the uk doesn’t have a large number of ventilators or icu beds,Ppe and lots of elderly it is foolish to criticize the quarantine here it won’t be long until you have you same if not higher numbers of infected and deaths.

Figures for deaths from Covid 19 in France don’t include people dying in care homes. I suspect the same will apply in the UK, where they are busy trying to persuade care home residents to sign DNR forms and not let them into hospital to be tested in the first place.

YANBU. We follow the Swedish model with interest.
Those who are immune compromised are taking responsibility but I agree that extended lockdown will ruin people’s lives for years.

“ but is viewing the expected rush to the many holiday homes with much anxiety”

That’s something that could have been handled everywhere

Stay in your main home, unless caring for someone in their main home.

Maybe Sweden won’t be hit as bad due to many working from home

If Sweden has a lower transmission rate because of their lower population density, more working from home, social habits, many living alone, etc, and also has a more robust health system, then they might have a flatter curve which is manageable. Maybe.

This could mean much less damage to the Swedish economy and could be brilliant for the country. Maybe.

But these things don't apply to the UK. People trying to get their heads around this need to understand that there's no one-size-fits-all measure that should be applied to all countries. Different countries will need different measures. Imagine the Swedish approach being applied to Singapore for example.

Deaths in Spain have been rising far less exponentially for a while and have actually dropped slightly today, but a better indicator of the trend is to look at both hospital and ICU admissions.

On this measure there are some hopeful signs beginning to emerge, particularly in Madrid which is ahead of most of the country in the cycle. Here in Spain over the last couple of days I have read reports of a doctor saying that a week or two ago they were seeing 300 patients coming in a day, now it was more like 200 so the pressure had eased somewhat. It was reported that a Madrid hospital had been able to take a patient from another district as they actually had an ICE bed available - this would have been unthinkable only recently.

In Spain the vast majority of people I know are enormously grateful for the lockdown ( which is far more stringent than the UK’s). Without it the transmission from the Madrid and Barcelona hotspots to the rest of the country would have been far more horrific than it already was.

Exactly Sweden just isn’t comparable to the uk in that way.

@MarshaBradyo
@Tonyaster
What unrest in Ireland? Which parts and what kind of unrests is there? Can you please be more specific?

@Hopeisnotastrategy where I am we are really grateful for the lockdown we have less than 1000 cases in the “county” and are able to help other areas with elderly care and hospital beds.

Eerie I didn’t say there had been. Just that earlier, longer lock down brings its own issues.

If they do go for a lockdown in Sweden, it would be interesting to see what would happen if it extended over midsummer. I could imagine there being civil unrest were the population to be told they've got to stay at home and not head into the countryside.

Every country in lockdown is obeying it mostly, while nobody particularly likes it. That seems the same across European states.

I have most of my family in Sweden and I am fucking terrified! This is a nation that has not experienced any form of disaster, whether war or pandemic or civil unrest, within living memory. Their last serious threat was in the early 1800s. They have grown up believing for several generations now that bad things happen in Other Countries. They just don't get it!

Thankfully parts of my family are taking self isolation seriously: my elderly parents and my brother who has suffered a stroke. Other members just don't seem to be able to get their heads round This Could Get Seriously Bad.

Yes, in the countryside less population density could help them. But Stockholm and Gothenburg are fairly large cities, where most people live in flats.

There is also less of a habit of disinfecting household equipment; doubt if my parents even own any Dettol or similar. Which is fine in a country which hasn't experienced any serious contagious diseases since the cholera and where food standards are generally high- but it really isn't going to help during a pandemic.

Marsha/Eerie - I think Ireland have a very strong and capable leader at this time in Leo Varadkar. I don't think any EU leader is as well qualified to lead in this crisis. He's taken very quick and tight lockdown measures early. But Ireland is not as populated as other EU countries. They also seem to have introduced community testing a few weeks ago, while the UK still don't even have that. From what I heard yesterday, he's reviewing lockdown measures at the end of next week when he sees whether figures are reducing/stabilising/rising. Tiny population in Ireland though compared to UK. And a tiny percentage of cases/deaths so far. I think he said he wants to see the rate of increase fall below 5% daily before he'll lift lockdown measures, but may have misheard. He seems to have a very clear strategy unlike the UK which has the tail wagging the dog.

Interesting statistic - >50% of Swedish households are one person only.

Corythatwas My best friend is in Canada and she said something called Lysol you can't get anymore - she said she thinks it's equivalent of Dettol.

Cory “Other members just don't seem to be able to get their heads round This Could Get Seriously Bad”

Have you considered they might not care?

Balmy I have heard a lot of people in Ireland say the same positive things about him which is good. Long term do you think Ireland can keep the very low level death rate up to vaccination? So he might release the lock down then reinstate early again to keep it down.

Maybe Ireland can and they’ll be one of the few countries in the West who has contained it. As long as economically it’s possible.

Are Ireland doing lots of testing and contact tracing? They do seem to have contained it quite early but obviously can’t stay in lockdown for months and months. Be great to see the long term strategy. It does sound like you have good, strong and decisive leadership.

Sweden has 602 cases per 1m people. We have 497 per million. That may be because they are testing more than us but this is unlikely - they reduced testing around the 20th March to focus on those in vulnerable groups.

Sweden has had 33 deaths per 1 million people. We have had 43, which may be linked to general heatth of popualtion, health care access etc.

The growth curves between both countries look remarkably similar to me and, in all honestly, neither country's growth curve looks like it's levelling off yet so we are not seeing the full picture.

TDLR: it's way too early and there isn't enough data to know if Sweden's/the UK's approach is better.