Sweden, could we do it the swedish way?

[SQuueze]

Maybe they have just got lucky but they aren't in complete lockdown. There is social distancing and other measures in place. But with masks, not coughing on people, a few rules, could we make it work?

Is the Swedish population healthier as a whole? I’ve only been once but didn’t spot a single overweight person. That might be a reason why they feel more resilient than us!

Is the Swedish population healthier as a whole?

Their average life expectancy is around 1.5 years longer than ours. Which is not quite the answer to your question, but gives an indication that they might be healthier. Which could explain the higher infection rates but lower deaths than us.

I don't know about Sweden but in Denmark everyone is ridiculously healthy - they all cycle everywhere and take the stairs up 4 floors, whereas in my office people get the lift to go up 2 floors!

Our demographics might not be helping our death rate - every single "young person with no underlying conditions" I've seen in the papers, was clearly overweight.

I hate the term 'collateral damage'. I don't want to just accept that I might die and that's okay for the sake of the economy I'd rather we were all on lockdown for months, with travel properly restricted, until the virus died out. And for all people entering the country to be properly tested before being let loose on the rest of us.
Proper lockdown apart from what is truly essential, would take pressure off our NHS.

Lots of oily fish and veg people! And on our bikes 🚲

Lockdown for months would be disastrous.

Not sure a virus can ‘die out’ we can only reduce rate of spread? If we wait for vaccine then that’s a year according to prof whitty. Hence the need for testing etc

For all people saying "testing and tracing" is all that is needed - Singapore are having to lock down despite taking that approach to start with:

www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/most-workplaces-to-close-schools-will-move-to-full-home-based-learning-from-next

I don't want to just accept that I might die and that's okay for the sake of the economy

A fine sentiment but it must also be considered that recession and lockdowns kill people too. I'm not saying I am anti-lockdown but the it's not as simple as choosing between lives and money - otherwise the answer would be easy. It's a choice between lives and lives, and one where we don't know all the facts. Which is shit.

I’m definitely not anti lockdown but I agree that it’s not something that can be done for an overly long time for the economy and Mh reasons.

Have you considered they might not care?

These are people with young families and vulnerable relatives: they bloody ought to care!

Balmy disinfectants exist, but not manufactured to the same extent and families aren't in the habit of using or stocking them in any quantity, so they'd be likely to run out.

Their health system must be amazing.
Im in Ireland and nextcweek there will becan announcement to let us know if perhaps there can be a slight relaxation of the restrictions. But we have to wait and see.
There is a lot of preparation going on here.

Im amazed Sweden is just business as usual. 😳
I hope that a lot of lives arent lost because hospitals are full

On health Bloomberg 2019 healthiest at top here Independent

Index:

Spain
Italy
Iceland
Japan
Switzerland
Sweden
Australia
Singapore
Norway
Israel
Luxembourg
France
Austria
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
South Korea
New Zealand
UK
Ireland

Lockdown is necessary because otherwise we all get ill at the same time and the majority die because there’s not enough ventilators. We are a small island with 60 odd million inhabitants, many on top of eachother, social distancing is hard for lots of people.

By the time you need a ventilator, you're already unlikely to survive. The best stats say you've got a 50% change, the medical journals think about a 20% chance.

I hate the term 'collateral damage'. I don't want to just accept that I might die and that's okay for the sake of the economy hmm I'd rather we were all on lockdown for months, with travel properly restricted, until the virus died out.

Ignoring that you have to make decisions for the good of society, not individuals, and that Imperial College has said that around 2/3 of those who die were likely to die within the next year anyway... There is basically no hope of an extended lockdown wiping the virus out. That was never the aim. Lockdown is to prevent the surge on the NHS.

Italy and Spain are top of healthy list I guess for the Mediterranean diet - they do have an older population than the uk as a result, and average age for death from covid is 78.

I don't want to just accept that I might die and that's okay for the sake of the economy

That's very over-simplistic and incorrect. You might survive CV but then be left jobless, homeless and unable to afford food. The NHS could be decimated/sold-off to pay the government's debt, and unable to do cancer appointments or routine checks for decades if the country is poor. If the country goes bankrupt due to over-borrowing, we will be well and truly fucked.

There were several studies linked in another thread ("how many lives are we actually saving"), estimating that in the 2 years after 2008 recession, we had 500,000 preventable cancer deaths - and another one saying that people in poorer countries are much more likely to suffer from heart disease and have shorter life expectancy.

It’s lives vs lives, not lives vs economy.

Newgirls yes to older population which they’re seeing now which is hard. I knew U.K. was unhealthier from other reading but seeing that list makes it a bit more real.

It would never work

In 2018 Sweden's entire population was 10.12 million.

London alone has 9 million people.

Long term do you think Ireland can keep the very low level death rate up to vaccination? So he might release the lock down then reinstate early again to keep it down.

No, he knows very well while obedient to an extent, the Irish are rebellious. He has put short timelines on everything. Yesterday's press conference said he'd review the data at the end of next week before considering relaxing lockdown measures. I think he knows that he can't continue this without there being uproar, so he knows his people, hence the short term limits being put on measures. Anyone can endure something for a day that they couldn't endure for a lifetime - somebody wise somewhere said that.
I think Ireland has a particularly under-resourced health service and yesterday he appealed for people with symptoms of other illnesses to please contact their GP as they're afraid of secondary deaths due to coronavirus. It appears nobody is contacting their GP at all. On the other hand, no more than here, I don't think that you can get an appointment. People are scared. Everyone knows everyone in Ireland - exaggeration, but it's almost the case. People are also prone to exaggeration there. People could be just in hospital but 'they were lucky to come out with their life'. I'm not criticising the Irish people at all - I am one originally. But they seem particularly obedient. Funny thing is Varadkar's party got decimated in the recent election and he's only sitting Taoiseach as they couldn't formulate a government. I bet everyone is thanking God it's him in charge rather than the other shiny faced fellow whose name escapes me.

Time will tell whether Sweden's strategy will work or not. At the moment the number of cases in Sweden is not out of line with their neighbours Norway and Denmark who are completely locked down.
Per million of poulation:
Sweden: 602 per million
Norway: 977 per million (locked down)
Denmark: 633 per million (locked down)

I live in rural Sweden and at the moment although things are not totally locked down it is not true that Sweden has been doing nothing:

• Universities are closed and teaching/examining students online
• Gymnasiets (6th forms) are closed and some high schools as well
• at the moment nurseries and primary schools are still open but traditionally many have a lot of outdoor activities
• people are generally socially distancing here - everywhere is very quiet: social events, groups sport training etc are cancelled, restaurants are takeaway only
• hospitals in my county banned visiting around 3 weeks ago
• testing has ramped up in the past couple of weeks
• in rural areas many people don't live very close together and rarely see neighbours in winter

There is a concern regarding whether people leave the big cities for Easter and go to holiday homes in other counties. The big skiing resorts all closed last weekend but if people head to holiday cabins is another issue. The weather may yet help out as there hasn't been much snow this winter and it was +10C yesyerday.

I’ve only been once but didn’t spot a single overweight person.

We exist but you won't see as many as bariatric surgery is completely normal here. I know personally 5 people who've had it. I was offered it shortly after moving here but turned it down as it wouldn't fix my eating disorder so would only make things worse for me.

Maybe they have just got lucky but they aren't in complete lockdown. There is social distancing and other measures in place. But with masks, not coughing on people, a few rules, could we make it work?

Too early to make such judgements on whether Sweden are approaching this right. Their death rate is where we were less than a week ago. We’ll have a better idea in 2-3 weeks.

All other countries shut down well before Sweden are currently in their cycle, so i think they’re hugely at risk.

If it was any other country we’d be calling them mad, but we hold Sweden in such high esteem that we assume they must be doing it right.

Time will tell whether Sweden's strategy will work or not. At the moment the number of cases in Sweden is not out of line with their neighbours Norway and Denmark who are completely locked down.

Cases aren’t a good measure as different countries are testing more extensively than others. Deaths are a much better measure, and Sweden is significantly ahead of Denmark and Norway on that score.

Cases aren’t a good measure as different countries are testing more extensively than others. Deaths are a much better measure

Yes! in fact they are the only measure. There is zero point in comparing cases unless we are all testing at exactlt the same rate.