Sweden, could we do it the swedish way?

[SQuueze]

Maybe they have just got lucky but they aren't in complete lockdown. There is social distancing and other measures in place. But with masks, not coughing on people, a few rules, could we make it work?

We are only trying not to overwhelm NHS not contain

This was my understanding too & I think the gov wanted to keep the schools open a bit longer.

I think it's really hard to compare countries personally, lots of cultural & behavioural differences.

I want to move to Sweden.

I wouldn’t feel to safe in Sweden yet. See what the numbers do. They may end up like us and bringing forward stricter measures.

What’s interesting though is that unlike us when we were doing the same, they are not the ‘laughing stock’ of the world. It’s viewed differently as it’s Sweden!

I don’t think the world views us as a laughing stock, we are just used to being told that they do by people who don’t actually live in the non EU world. EU countries want to portray us as a laughing stock because we left the EU. Remainers want to believe that the whole world thinks we are a laughing stock because they are Remainers. If you ask the rest of the non-EU world I’m sure they have plenty of things to say about us but I doubt ‘they are a laughing stock’ features in the top ten.

The laughing stock thing is a bit silly. I imagine The Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain and Belgium have other things to think about.

I will happily be proved wrong but I think the economic meltdown from this, which will last for years and affect the wellbeing of the next generation as well as our own, not to mention to suicides will have more impact than the virus itself. There is no question it’s been managed terribly here but we have sacrificed the economy and all of our futures.

Regarding Sweden, I think it's too early to judge yet, but they are a much more law abiding and rule respecting society than this country. Most people there don't seem to like the idea of standing out or being different from their peers/neighbours.

The UK was a laughing stock far beyond Mumsnet in its slow response to the crisis, Tonyaster. I read a huge amount of critical posts and comments I read from Irish family, friends and acquaintances on Facebook and Irish family members were extremely critical in personal chats. An Italian friend of mine was also saddened by the slow response of the UK government.

Porcupineinwaiting - As I understand it one of the principles underpinning Sweden's approach is the feeling that its health service can cope with the expected surge of demand, whereas we are very clear that ours cannot. What do you think is the reason that most other countries brought in restrictions? Did they think their health services wouldn't cope?

My husband's Swedish and he's so worried for his parents who live there. His Dad (extremely high risk) was booted out of hospital after an op over a week ago because a CV case had come in. His Dad's not doing well at home. I think there will be a few more days of this casual approach, maybe a week and then public opinion over skyrocketing deaths will force a u-turn. I think it's a horrific strategy they're following and really hope that the Swedish Government's not left with blood on its hands.

Time will tell of course and I wouldn't be too sure of Swedish compliance en masse any more. I think Sweden's undergone a massive cultural shift in the last few years.

“ We tried doing it the Swedish way. It might have been fine but the government got constant criticism and hysteria for it. ”

Sad but true.

Italy and Spain are different: more tourists, more community events, multi-generational households or mixing, more smokers and health issues, more air pollution in certain areas and many other things that I can't think of right now.

The Italian deaths were over 85% pre existing health conditions.

"I think they've made the right decision. Lockdown doesn't work - look at Spain."

They did it too late.
It seems to be working in Portugal. We went into lockdown earlier and the rise in cases seems to be slowing down. Early days, but we are certainly not on course to become Spain or Italy.

Re Ireland -They may have thought that at the time but everyone will start to feel the brunt of a long down having started earlier.

I think it's too early to judge yet, but they are a much more law abiding and rule respecting society than this country. Most people there don't seem to like the idea of standing out or being different from their peers/neighbours

My aunt is swedish and she would say this is a massive generalisation!

Wouldn't work here - for a kick off we have a much larger population and they are more densely concentrated (and many of them are just more dense, full stop)

Re Ireland -They may have thought that at the time but everyone will start to feel the brunt of a long down having started earlier

Yes, already a lot of unrest there!

My husband made the point that in the future epidemiologists will be able to study how different countries dealt with the pandemic and work out the 'right' strategy. Not particular helpful right now but I suppose we are all part of this massive experiment!

Interesting point but without mass testing I dont think any comparisions can be truly accurate. For starters, here in the UK we really dont know how many people really have had the infection. Aside from the many self publicising z-listers who 'caught it' and recovered quickly we dont know how many of us have had it and fully recovered.

But back to the OP question, no, personally I dont think that would work because we've already seen we can't trust our fellow citizens to behave responsibly and I dont want to see anyone die because of idiots.

@thatgingergirl yes I think so. Tbf Italy brought them in as it realised it couldn't cope, rather than to preempt that. And a lot of countries looked at Italy and didnt want to copy their model but instead keep to a lower level of sickness that was managable. And then their are other countries where lockdown is not possible due to poverty.

and many of them are just more dense, full stop

People just can't wait to put the boot in to their own country.

Sadly for the naysayers I think we will come out of this rather well comparatively. Particularly if we can ger the testing sorted and people start wearing masks and herd immunity starts to kick in

People outside weren't laughing at the UK. They were extremely worried.
The UK wasn't testing enough nor implementing restriction measures.
You can choose to test or to lockdown, but to choose none is a recipe for disaster.

@Lweji Agreed!

I bet Google has all the data somehow in their servers

What unrest in Ireland? that's news to me and I live there

But they are a very socially aware and have a compliant culture - just look at the number of people in the U.K. pushing the lockdown for their own needs
Absolutely!!

We will be doing it the Swedish way soon, purely because we cannot sustain this lockdown for too long. At the moment we have to do our bit for the NHS so that they do not become overwhelmed. However, we all know this can't go on forever while we wait for a vaccine / cure.