Sweden, could we do it the swedish way?

[SQuueze]

Maybe they have just got lucky but they aren't in complete lockdown. There is social distancing and other measures in place. But with masks, not coughing on people, a few rules, could we make it work?

However Sweden might well come out at the end (or in a years' time, say) with relatively the same number of deaths as would have been expected anyway

Only if they have a huge number of spare ventilators and hospital staff to take care of patients.

Younger people are getting seriously ill and need hospital care too.

@Tonyaster Ridiculous. Evidence Spain lock down "not working"? What would deaths be in spain without lockdown?

What’s interesting though is that unlike us when we were doing the same, they are not the ‘laughing stock’ of the world. It’s viewed differently as it’s Sweden!

It might turn out to be the wrong approach but it's not a Dominic Cummings 'eugenics plot' in Sweden either!

What’s interesting though js that unlike us when we were doing the same, they are not the ‘laughing stock’ of the world. It’s viewed differently as it’s Sweden! Were they doing stuff like the Chelentham Festival, Crufts, huge music concerts, half marathons? I think if we'd stopped some of the nonsense earlier we would be having an easier time now.

Still, their approach rings alarm bells. It seems they are prioritising the economy (like the UK did initially) and it may come back to bite them.

This is still going to come back and bite us all. Many people had already suffered under years of austerity, we have the TORIES in power, there will be no 'stimulation' package, no big infrastructure projects, no innovative thinking, just more Thatcherite idealism and once again the poor, JAB, and the disabled will take the biggest hit.

More people will die long term with this approach. People have completely lost sight of that and as soon as the new hospitals are built I hope we go back to getting things running.

JAM not JAB

@PicsInRed There ARE mass absences in the NHS - 1 in 4 doctors and 1 in five nurses are off work, or do you think that doesn't count?

People may not think lockdown is working in Spain but it is, the number of people being admitted to hospital and testing positive is dropping, the high death numbers are people that became ill a while ago. Also in Spain (and Italy) big families live together so it still spreads between family members for weeks after lockdown, same with old people’s homes. Lockdown takes weeks to work, even months, people can’t expect to see a big change within 2-4 weeks because many people are already infected before the lockdown.

Sweden may just not of hit the numbers others have yet, they may see a increase over the coming weeks, same as other countries.

There’s talk that we may see stricter measures come into place over the weekend as people are still going out and young people still meeting in groups (mainly teenagers).

Italy are seeing numbers come down after many weeks in lockdown. We are still in the early stages and have many weeks to go.

Catherine but "funding it properly before" would have meant ICU, staff, ventilators and hospitals to the tune of the numbers we are looking at dealing with now, on standby for how many years? waiting for a pandemic that might come next year, in 5 years, in 10 years or never. Look at all the measures being built and put into place right now. If they had been waiting and on standby since (say) the SARS days, without a pandemic in between then and now, would people be saying that was cost effective?

Also there's no way of knowing what type of pandemic is going to hit. Ebola for example, the symptoms are very different to COVID-19, as is the way it's spread, but the measures, treatments etc suitable for Ebola may not/would not be suitable for COVID-19. Or any other unknown, new virus to hit the world. It could have been a haemoraghing virus to hit, nothing to do with respiration... who knows....Then the ventilators might not be the very necessary No.1 equipment required, some other equipment might be instead.

Sweden is doing what we were doing in February.

The population of Sweden is just over 10 million, in a country almost twice the size of the UK, and that’s just for starters.

What about the bordering Scandavian countries? Are they following suit?

Scandinavian

I think Sweden are making a massive mistake. My daughter is a teacher and has reduced immunity due to recently having her spleen removed. She still has to go into work every day. I'm so frightened for her. Not just her physical health. Her mental health is taking a hammering and I'm sure how she's going to get through this.

And Sweden is also going to end up on their knees from this. Reports leaking out from drs and nurses already very alarming. They started a little behind us - possibly less international travellors as they don't have a Heathrow equivalent? That doesn't make this a good idea.

Remember any country will always be around 2 weeks behind in cases, and 4-5 weeks behind in deaths. Just because things seem ok now doesn't mean it will seem ok in 5 weeks and by then it's already too late.

I fear that pride in a special uniqueness will lead to their downfall.

@HooplaHoopla, in fairness it’s emerging that the government had been advised for well over a decade that the U.K. doesn’t have enough ventilators or working environments to deal with them. Not just in pandemic exercises but terrorist threats and other emergency scenarios.

"I think they've made the right decision. Lockdown doesn't work - look at Spain. "

How can you possibly say that? Without lockdown the might have been hitting 2500 deaths per day. Instead they seem to be topping out just under 1000.

Also Sweden has higher taxation and a well financed health service paid for by independent insurance. We have the creaky old NHS that everyone expects for free.

I am actually very interested in this model. There is a link to an interesting article here (BBC) it claims that only 12% of the Italian deaths were solely due to Clovid 19. My concern is when we start mixing again we will see another curve and peak. Surely, with a vaccine still over a year away, we will also be relying on heard immunity at some point? The deaths in Sweden will likely be higher now but I think it will be interesting at the end of this to see if overall we fare any better. Or whether we end up with a similar amount of deaths and a recession. I realise that the main reason for isolating is so as not to overburden the NHS though so maybe Sweden has a stronger health system that can cope?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

Sweden banned visiting care homes on Wednesday. But a report out yesterday shows that a third of care homes are already infected. They've shut the gate after the horse has bolted.

How can you possibly say that? Without lockdown the might have been hitting 2500 deaths per day. Instead they seem to be topping out just under 1000

How can you possibly say that? You have no idea.

You'd expect to see new cases dropping by now and they've pretty much stayed the same.

I’m with you OP

I can only think the government were swayed by public opinion. A Swedish policy would have been workable here, with tweaks to account for population and lifestyle.

I would still say that people in the vulnerable category should self isolate and have access to the government compensation scheme though.

As I understand it one of the principles underpinning Sweden's approach is the feeling that its health service can cope with the expected surge of demand, whereas we are very clear that ours cannot.

If we'd brought in higher taxes and independent health insurance years ago perhaps our NHS would be in a better position now.