Would you vaccinate yourself against CV

[LaPerla]

Would you be the first to vaccinate yourself/children against CV when the vaccine is available?

It's not helpful to refer to the "side effects of drugs" A vaccine is not a drug. It is an antigen (protein)
People saying they don't want their children "pumped full of medication" in reference to a vaccine are talking shite.

There are two strains of this coronavirus, apparently, a mild strain and a much nastier, more virulent one

That's not supported by more recent data and the claim wasn't well supported then either.

Vaccines can have side effects.
Drugs can have side effects.
Exercise can have side effects.
Food supplements can have side effects.

I'd rather take anything that has been thoroughly tested and millions of people test subjects have taken the risk before me.
But when the stakes are high, milder side effects are a risk worth taken to ease off the risk for myself and others, and to ease off the burden of this disease on society.

The impact of the disease on communities and of the economic crisis will be huge. It's incredibly hard to get the balance right without bankruptcies and unemployment or without a huge death toll.

In that sense, vaccine avoiders are being extremely selfish.

@SmileyClare You make a lot of good points. I really don’t understand the anti vax attitude. Covid is now a fact of life, and people will continue to get very sick unless we vaccinate. I speak as someone who’s DD ended up having her first, and only, sever asthma attack after the HPV vaccine. Turns out breathing problems have been reported for people with sever egg allergy, which she had, add to that the asthma and suddenly we were in A&E being told if things didn’t improve within 20 minutes DD would be moved to ICU. The most frightening night of my life.

She still gets the flu vaccine, but we spend quite a while at the GP surgery with staff trying not to look worried. Once Covid vaccine comes out we will have the conversations, and if it means she’ admitted to hospital overnight as a precaution then that’s what we’ll do. Her risk of getting Covid, and it being bad, is much higher than her risk of getting a reaction to the vaccine.

Maybe you should have given evidence in the pandemrix court case in Ireland last autumn.

You mean the case that was settled out of court, with no liability admitted or proven?I'm in Ireland, and I have friends working in medicine who were shocked that the case was settled, as it needlessly gave more oxygen to the anti vaxxers argument.

There is still no proof that the vaccine caused narcolepsy, only that in a tiny proportion of people in the age group concerned (where genetic factors were also at play) there was a possible link. Even if we assume the vaccine was the only cause, it still affected just 1 person out of 10,000 in the worst affected countries. For every 10,000 people infected with Covid-19, several hundred will die.

It's pretty obvious which carries the highest risk to the general population, and it's not the vaccine by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes we probably would.

Sakura, you claimed any vaccine being given to the public would be thoroughly tested. It emerged in court that Pandemrix had not been tested on teenagers at all, and contained an ingredient that was not licenced for children. Those are the facts.

Therefore, it is not unreasonable to be concerned that a potential coronavirus vaccine might also not be thoroughly tested. If it hasn't been fully tested, then we simply cannot know what the potential side effects might be.

I keep stressing this, I am not an anti-vaxxer. I think vaccines are fantastic, provided that they have been thoroughly tested.

LookingGlassMilk I dont know why you're assuming a Covid-19 vaccine won't be fully tested though?

Throughout history we've had medicines that have caused harm to people. We don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and decide we can't trust any medication ever again. We learn the lessons. I trust that a Covid-19 vaccine will be rigorously tested because it has to be, given the numbers requiring it. This doesn't mean it's impossible that a small number of people will suffer side effects, but the benefits to society in neutralizing this horrid virus far outweigh those risks.

I'm not assuming it won't, or saying that it definitely won't be. I'm just saying that it's possible that it won't be, because we've seen this situation before, and it's not an unreasonable concern to have.

If I'm satisfied that it has been fully tested then I will absolutely get the vaccine.

My kids would be at the front of the queue. I would too, only I'm recovering from it, so not a priority. I do wonder if some of you realise quite what can constitute a "mild" case - I have been so ill for 2 weeks and am now just really quite unwell going into week 3.

How do you define thoroughly tested, LookingGlassMilk?

And understand that to have thorough tests, we need to have test subjects.
There's an ethical dilema in testing children, in particular. Who should we choose to test on?
And if we never test, will we be able to use anything at all, ever?

Plus, there's the small effect issue.
The narcolepsy effect was only noticeable in countries where the vaccine was widely implemented. Not in countries where take up was lower.
How do you thoroughly test for a vaccine (or drug) in which a side effect is only noticeable when millions, or even 100s of thousands use it?

I'm not anti-vax but I am totally against enforced mandatory vaccination.

The minute we lose autonomy of our own bodies we are on a very slippery slope where the state have 100% control over people and we have no human rights left.

If people want to get the vaccine that is entirely up to them. If others want to risk it, then that is their right, their basic human right.

People might need to fight for this right in the not too distant future. I have no doubt that the virus is real (it may or may not be man-made), but some of the bullshit nonsense surrounding the virus makes me think they are going to force vaccines on people. We can't let that happen.

It's not human made

We don't know that.

Eugenics didn't die with Hitler you know.

@mindproject completely agree

A recent analysis of the virus genome has shown that it's not likely.
The kind of sequences they found aren't optimal or those already known to research.
It looks exactly like the type of virus that evolved through natural selection rather than being a human construct.

I have no doubt the virus is for real well done. Surely no one on this planet think its pretend?
Not even going to comment on the "man made virus" crap.

If others want to risk it, then that is their right yes you have a right to be selfish by putting a lot of vulnerable people who cannot gain immunity from a vaccine at risk but most people won't exercise that right for moral reasons.

Let's do a quick risk assessment: vaccine= minimal risk of side effects
Taking a chance with covid19= high risk of severe illness, long term lung damage and death.

Yes I would be vaccinated.

There's a risk with all drugs and it's true with newer drugs there's less data.

Consider there's a lot of commentary that the FDA wouldn't have approved aspirin or penicillin these days. Wonder how many on the thread have taken those and how risky you perceive them to be.

To those who would only want to take a vaccine with lots of data, so you're happy for everyone else to go first. How do you think that works out if most people have that view.

It's going to be a risk but there is no risk free option here, so I guess it depends where you want to place your bets.

Yes.

Paracetamol as well would be an issue now I believe...as the consequences of overdose can be terrible.

Smiley - a lot of people think the virus isn't real and the death rate hasn't gone up anywhere, it's the normal flu death rate that's being recorded. I'm not sure about that.

What I do know for certain is that psychopaths control the world. Why wouldn't they put a deadly virus out to cull the population? They get off on that shit.

I do not trust these people with vaccines, not one bit.

Stop being so naïve.

No, I wouldn't.

I'm lost for words! I really hope you're joking Mindproject
I assume you think it's dangerous and irresponsible to cough on people but don't think it's irresponsible or dangerous to post conspiracy theories on a public forum?

What are your thoughts for controlling a pandemic if no one should trust a vaccine? What is the solution? Just sit back and let the population be "culled" as you put it?

Christ you're giving me a good laugh Mindproject. I really hope thats the intention, and you don't actually believe the batshittery you're posting.