Our human rights have been taken away

[Soph7777]

I know it's for a good cause.

I know it's to save lives.

But our basic human rights have been taken from under us, in the short space of a week.

I find this part most of all the scariest.

I'm really struggling mentally with government control to this extent.

How long can this last before people lose their minds and rebel?

@bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg

I don't want to disagree with you over this because we are talking about such highly vulnerable people - I am also trying to think that the decision wouldn't have been taken lightly and in isolation - other measures will be at play. The change in legislation to me is similar to the change that happened regarding downgrading Covid - 19 from a HCID - it was done because it freed up resources to move quickly. In that case it actually facilitated the most important course of action to move quickly. I hope that this is a similar case and I was just trying to put that point across that sometimes the physical reality has to take precedence over the abstract in order to protect the human right of the greatest number of people. This conflict is due to the nature of both abstract and physical realities - nothing else.

It's delicate balance during a crisis

It is indeed, but reading a thread about a dying FIL where even just his son has been refused access, I honestly feel some things are going too far. It's been announced that over 10,000 (possibly infected) people will be repatriated here, but apparently one final visit to a much loved relative is deemed too much

I'm sorry, but just NO ... if we lose even our humanity we've lost everything

It was the OP's statement on the last thread that she couldn't be expected to care about 90 year olds dying if she was to be expected to stay at home that put me firmly into "get over yourself" mode for this one.

And that's the thing. If we no longer care about the old, or the weak, or those who're most vulnerable, then what kind of society are we? Not one I want to live in.

What is the rationale behind loosening rules on sectioning?
Is it too free up doctors time?
Are they foreseeing a large increase in the level of mental Ill health that requires sectioning?

The troubling thing is that labelling prior mad and locking them up, essentially without due process and much easier than going through criminal process etc, has been hideously misused in the past.

Who gets to determine what mad is? It can be very, very subjective. And has been, a lot.

Wow @LimitIsUp that is some very interesting reading, and perhaps the scientists are miss informing us as well at the governments. Makes me wonder if the scientists have and ulterior motive, Oh wait a minute are they not government funded?

It was the OP's statement on the last thread that she couldn't be expected to care about 90 year olds dying if she was to be expected to stay at home

Didn't know or see that comment, so I took the OP abd her post at face value. Some comments are possibly more understandable now.

The resulting discussion has been useful though, and worth carrying over to a new thread.

As well as the glee which some seem to take in reporting their neighbours for non-existent rule-breaking and the accompanying eagerness for martial law, there have also been an awful lot of people making up their own rules. The two I see most often being:

-Daily exercise must not exceed one hour’s duration

-Supermarket shopping trips are restricted to one per week

As if it wasn’t bad enough to have freedoms curtailed, why are some so keen to make the situation even worse?

Many of the people saying this stuff also believe that rule-breakers or benders should not receive medical treatment if they get ill.

I wonder how many of the same people were imploring us all to ‘Be Kind’ just a few weeks ago.

If supermarkets are rationing how many of each item people can buy in one trip then will how often people need to shop not correlate very strongly with how many people they're shopping for?

no they are probably the ones who cleaned out the supermarket shelves so those less able of us are having to manage on what is left in our fridges, freezers and cupboards because we cannot get out to shop and we cannot get a home delivery despite being disable.

This is certainly very true as evidenced by many posters on this thread, especially the bit about turning on one another.

AdamWagner tweeted that: The human rights framework emerged from a simple truth which had been amply evidenced - and this is it: Societies under pressure tend to close in on themselves, people turn to strong men, people turn on each other

AdamWagner tweeted:
The idea of human rights was to build into societies a set of checks and balances which would, in principle, insure us against our worst natures - accepting (this is important) the simple truth that when crisis hits the natural instinct is to turn to illiberal measures. /7

AdamWagner tweeted:
Why are illiberal measures so damaging? Because they tend to trigger fear, panic and in history that has generally meant bad things for whatever group/s happen to be the scapegoat.

Hope you're ok, op, I understand what you're trying to have a discussion on.

I don't hope anyone will die, and I don't want to live in a society where people are hoping others will die.

Death is a part of life, Birth is the beginning of the end, and no I don't really want anyone to die but I just get angry with those that feel or expect that they are better than others so deserve to have everything, taking food from the elderly is putting them at greater harm, if we cannot eat to sustain our bodies then we will be more prone to infection.

Actually the right of a child to education is a human right. So children have had this taken away.

OP I'm in agreement with you in that this is just insane, butting needs to be done. All we can do is take it one day at a time. The only consolation of having young DC in all of this is that the days fly by.

people you got to read that article by Dr John Lee it makes so much sense we are being duped by the scientists and the governments are falling for it as well

and it may sound terrible but i hope those that horded are those that die and don't benefit from overstocking on everything and causing panic either that or it all goes off before they get a chance to use it.

I think very few people really hoarded. In fact a recent study looked into till data and found that supermarket shortages had been predominantly caused by people just spending about £5 a week more than normal. It wasn't panic buying that broke the supermarket chain - it was their 'just in time' model that meant they don't have enough storage space on site for much more than a day or two worth of stock.

I have an iffy heart that up to about a week ago was quite stable, but over past week have had some worrying symptoms, but this isolation business has made me paranoid and now i am afraid to call and ambulance or go to the hospital in case i pick up this virus, I have even taken the key out of my key safe so no one can get into my home unless I throw them down a key. Won't be able to do that if i am collapsed on the floor. I would like to go stay with family so I will be safe and have help if I need it but even that worries me. See I am now totally paranoid because of this lockdown.

Wishing death on anyone is not a good reaction either.

Agree with waterLego and others that the enthusiasm with which quite a lot of people seem to be reacting to this is very disturbing and from a social perspective very interesting.

I think a couple of things.

1. Media outlets will adjust their output for the common 'good'. Some would call it propoganda. Already there is a surfeit of stories saying yay keep at it. Many leveraging wartime experiences. I'm finding it very interesting. I said to my DH that I think it's unlikely that negative stories about lock in will be reported. He was unsure. We'll see. I get that it's good to keep people jiffied up but to me it feels too obvious

1. Demonisation of certain groups. On MN the early groups getting it in the neck seem to be people with MH issues and, bizarrely, children. Single parents (mothers) especially. I think this might be down to, people heeding the call to keep chins up etc having quite a poor reaction against those who are struggling and in their minds not 'doing their bit'

Whether MN is a true reflection of society is questionable there have always been a lot of trolls/ people who enjoy upsetting others etc. I don't know. You can see how McCarthyism etc got hold though.

people you got to read that article by Dr John Lee it makes so much sense we are being duped by the scientists and the governments are falling for it as well

Right.

Well, better safe than sorry!

Yep. Don't blame individuals for a broken system.

(In the supermarkets and shortages sense, not the pls read my conspiracy theory sense)

they may have only been spending an extra £5 but how many times did they go to the supermarket in a week? I had to get some meds from a pharmacy in my local Tesco, it was a Monday morning about 9.30am but looked like a Saturday afternoon shopping time and the store security said it had been like that since 6am and I know as I have friends who work in other stores that they were all the same, so it may have only been an extra £5 but was more than once a week and I bet in some cases more than once a day so don't say people didn't hoard or panic buy cos they did. I couldn't even get a shopping slot for 3 weeks and usually i get just the one I want. and they were not stocking up or panic buying||||