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Our human rights have been taken away

999 replies

Soph7777 · 29/03/2020 23:40

I know it's for a good cause.

I know it's to save lives.

But our basic human rights have been taken from under us, in the short space of a week.

I find this part most of all the scariest.

I'm really struggling mentally with government control to this extent.

How long can this last before people lose their minds and rebel?

OP posts:
Amymayapple · 30/03/2020 17:18

@twocatssleeping

Think about what you can do.

It is a small step but there have been a few whatsapp groups set up in my part of Ireland, with alot of people, to try to enact a protest.

Some people will be calling radios
Others will be calling their local county councillors/local MP's
Others are gathering more support from people.

Xenia · 30/03/2020 17:18

At the moment the mood of the country is to retain the lock down and the laws and both political parties have the same view so now is not likely to be the best time nor do I think a judicial review of the regulations would be won.

I think after about 3 weeks some people might get enough support for some kind of civil unrest although they are likely to be very unpopular. If any of the laws are being abused or are particularly unfair or discriminatory then that might be subject to legal challenge. As 70% f those who die are male may be eg we should be saying women can go out of the house not men - that would be a nice reversal of the sexism of sharia law - no going out without permission from a man kind of business.

Amymayapple · 30/03/2020 17:19

@Xenia I think that you might get more people rebelling than you think

Gettingo · 30/03/2020 17:22

For me, I think it's children's rights that have struck me the most. They're unlikely to get very sick from the virus but they still have their education and opportunities to play and socialise taken away from them, probably for months. It seems really unfair.

MarshaBradyo · 30/03/2020 17:22

Our govt is at the end of the spectrum not to want a long lock down, not as bad as US but did take longer to put in place than other countries. I doubt they want it longer than necessary. Whether people can deal with it? I think they can. Probably more anger online than unrest unless they can’t eat (which is a possibility if no food or help).

TwoCatsSleeping · 30/03/2020 17:22

@Amymayapple interesting to hear about the groups forming in your area. The big issue right now is taking this standpoint and coming across as a loony to people.

It may only be a matter of time though.

People have been told "3 weeks".

FixTheBone · 30/03/2020 17:22

@xenia

Why is that a 'nice reversal' ?

Kind of like saying it'd be great if a situation arose where white people were the main victims of racism...

MarshaBradyo · 30/03/2020 17:23

Ireland for example was early. Some happy with that others not as on here.

MarshaBradyo · 30/03/2020 17:24

And even though we were late the U.K. govt did state it wasn’t a quick fix. Ireland and Germany, even US gave early dates to stop.

Amymayapple · 30/03/2020 17:25

@TwoCatsSleeping we have already been three weeks under these restrictions in Ireland.

MarshaBradyo · 30/03/2020 17:30

Amy I did actually think Ireland was too early but people will have different views.

CoronaIsComing · 30/03/2020 17:31

This isn’t about you though it’s about protecting the whole country, world even.

Amymayapple · 30/03/2020 17:32

@marshabradyo if Ireland has these restrictions going on longer than anywhere else, I am going on holiday somewhere else the minute that country is back to normal!!

#too severe in Ireland

salty78 · 30/03/2020 17:32

@LimitIsUp thank you for the link. I listened to Sumption's Reith Lectures which were along similar lines and about how risk averse as a society we are becoming. This is honestly what scares me the most about this whole pandemic situation, not the virus itself.

MarshaBradyo · 30/03/2020 17:34

It is definitely a downside to acting quickly. I think U.K. is ok with timing -not other stuff like being prepared. But at least they get that people can’t put up with it for ages and that has to be taken into account.

TwoCatsSleeping · 30/03/2020 17:35

If this thread gets to 1k, let's have a pt2 so we can continue to discuss.

So how much longer is the lockdown going to last in Ireland. Have the government specified or is it just 'ongoing' now?

Amymayapple · 30/03/2020 17:35

Yes @MarshaBradyo I think that Boris is right in how much people would take.

I think that people are starting to crack and rebel - in my area of Ireland at least.

Amymayapple · 30/03/2020 17:39

@TwoCatsSleeping originally we were given restrictions until April 19th.

Then he imposed more restrictions - you can only walk so far from your house, police have the right to impose this, and only essential workers can travel on public transport, but said tha these more severe restrictions will only last until April 11

And then we will be back to "normal restrictions"...everywhere being closed.

Who knows how long that will go on for

TwoCatsSleeping · 30/03/2020 17:43

@Amymayapple I don't think i can live like that. I'm not being a snowflake either.

Thanks
BeardyButton · 30/03/2020 17:44

Isnt it wonderful when people become justice warriors.... Not for the common good, clearly. But to defend their own personal freedoms.

Never mind the army trucks removing bodies in Lombardy. Never mind the refrigerator trucks in New York. Its not about me being selfish... No no! Course not!!! Its about rights. Vomit.

TwoCatsSleeping · 30/03/2020 17:46

@BeardyButton it's just a different way of looking at it. And it Is still for the common good.

It's either Corona or it's suicide. Or it's dying of the disease that cannot be treated due to the appointments being cancelled due to Corona.

There HAS to be balance for this to work.

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 30/03/2020 17:48

Isnt it wonderful when people become justice warriors

I think you got the justice warriors camp wrong, at least for hen using it as an insult as you did.

OldQueen1969 · 30/03/2020 17:49

I started reading this thread yesterday and have finally got up to speed today. I read it because it was a bold title, and I wanted to see which way it went.

The OP said at one point that they felt as if they were cast in a film that they had no choice but to participate in; they have also said that they are complying, but have questions and are struggling. There is a hint of dissociation in that sort of feeling, which is regarded as a warning sign of poor mental health - BUT given that the human mind is soothed by the familiar, confirmation bias, routine and working towards concrete goals in an optimistic manner, I would find it very surprising if the majority of "normal" "mentally healthy" people weren't experiencing some sort of mild trauma from the sheer speed of the events unfolding now that have completely undermined all of the cornerstones of good mental health that have now been turned on their heads.

Denial is strong at the moment for a variety of reasons - we are in a completely new situation, with an invisible foe which may completely overwhelm the healthcare and welfare provision promised from cradle to grave after WW2, which we have been given conflicting information about from day one, whenever day one (something of a moveable feast due to the reluctance of our authorities to act) was for national consciousness, we see our leaders succumbing albeit, apparently mildly, to this foe, on top of several years of austerity measures so severe they were questioned as an abuse of human rights by the UN. Recent political discord around Brexit, immigration, and many other issues now seen as insignificant in the light of the current crisis have done little to provide a strong foundation for a united front.

I utterly identify with this, and I suspect many others do too, especially the "over-thinkers", those who take an interest in world affairs and whose internet searches have lead them down various rabbit holes. Let's face it, if a human mind can imagine a horror show, a human being can make it a reality.

Overall, the population HAS stepped up, weighed up the urgent risks and chosen to comply with requests and directives to "flatten the curve" to help the NHS and other frontline workers. Remember though that until the beginning of this month, we were told that mass gatherings, particularly lucrative, high profile ones were not particularly high risk. We were given the impression that the virus was a problem elsewhere, but unlikely to cause much disruption to us. We sure that in a matter as serious as this, visitors from hotspot countries would be rigorously tested, isolated, contact tracing would be a priority. We were told that human to human transmission risk was relatively low. We were, until very recently unaware that our health-workers would be without PPE, that ventilators were critically in short supply, and those sounding the alarms were denounced as scaremongers and conspiracy theorists with political agendas.

Add in the fact that not everyone keeps up with the news, not everyone can spare the time from family commitments, work, caring responsibilities to fact check, research and keep up with the wider world - they may get their info from the shark pool of FB and other social media, because if their lives are running relatively smoothly, or if they are not and they spend all their time tail-chasing for work, child rearing, education, and the 101 demands of our fast paced modern world, a virus described by officials in the first instance as likely to impact most people as a mild flu, affecting only the vulnerable particularly badly, might easily drop down one list of priorities in those vital early stages. If our elected government allowed Cheltenham and Crufts to go ahead, our schools to remain open etc even though other countries were sounding huge klaxons, can we really blame those who went for a last hurrah when they suddenly closed the pubs?

It has taken footage from Italy and horror stories from Spain, countries not so far removed from our own, places we might have visited and know to bring home the potential seriousness of the situation, and MOST PEOPLE have drastically altered their behaviour and lives in a startlingly short space of time, despite the additional hardships the lockdown may cause.

MOST PEOPLE - I would say the vast majority in fact - agree to a man with the need to take pressure off the depleted NHS, from the people working in it and all the other support infrastructures, and to try and save lives. However, compliance does not have to mean the cessation of critical thinking, of debate, of wondering WTAF is going on, and how, in such a short space of time, millions of people around the world are suddenly being told they are the problem just as much as the virus is, and that the authorities should be blindly followed regardless of sometimes conflicting science, and should not be held accountable now in any way, and possibly never , at all.

Several governments, our own included, dismantled and sidelined the departments / organisations that were best placed to prepare us for a pandemic situation that we were warned, by the best sources, was an inevitability. What kind of magical, solely economy based thinking allowed this state of affairs? Is it any wonder that while we comply out of justifiable fear, we wonder how we got here? Is not this very discovery pertinent to our "right to life"? And has this not undermined that well in advance of the other massive upheavals we now face?

Some people are "good" in a crisis - they have useful strengths and thrive on the adrenaline, on planning and organisation - not ghoulishly, but because that is their personality. It still affects them but they are better able to compartmentalise, justify the hard decisions, and look to benefits in the future. Some people will "manage" but it will take a bit of bargaining, a bit of self gratification and soothing, like me, a slightly muddle through approach, with teeth clenched and fingers crossed. Others will not cope so well, but will be self aware enough to open up and analyse things as a coping mechanism - which is self-awareness, but others may say self-obsessed - their advantage, if isolated is access to the internet where they can find like-minded people and others who can help them rationalise, seek coping strategies and not have their fears ridiculed, minimised or utterly discounted (one would hope). Those who cannot cope at all will be the unreported and possibly vilified unseen casualties of CV19 indirectly. That is not their fault.

Every needless, preventable death is shocking. I include every victim of CV19 directly, patients and their carers / nurses / doctors / anyone with higher exposure and higher risk doing their jobs, plus those who will remain undiagnosed with other diseases that might be curable if caught now, those whose life-saving treatment is being postponed because resources are having to be diverted to CV19, those who will die at the hands of abusive partners or parents who will be obeying the rules and taking out their frustrations behind closed doors, those who cannot see a future, cut off from mental health support and networks, and decide they can't go on, those who cannot get food, those who cannot reach out for essential medical support because they have been lead to believe they are less worthwhile than others due to the bile and vitriol heaped on them for minor transgressions of the rules, those who may fall victim to street crime because the police have been diverted to check whether someone has bought a non-essential Easter Egg, those who never recover from the financial and stress related economic crash - CV19 victims are not the only people who will die.

When people express fear at the loss of our rights, while complying, I feel, personally, it is an aspect of collective grief, frustration and the loss of control over our lives - was this always a fragile and illusory concept after all?

I'm braced for the backlash if you want to have a pop, but I'm just adding my voice to a debate, and offloading thoughts that have been swirling in my brain as I try to keep up with things and protect and advocate for my terminally ill mother.

To the OP - thank you for giving me an opportunity to communicate, to explore my fears, and gauge the opinions of others. I hope, in time, things become clearer for us all, and that there will be some hopeful outcomes - I wish you well.

mbosnz · 30/03/2020 17:49

" And the threat is usually a real threat but usually exaggerated. That's what I fear we are seeing now. "

He's a law expert. Not a medical expert, or an expert in infectious diseases. They're the ones who I'm going to listen to about how exaggerated or otherwise the threat is.

My children might be less vulnerable to the disease than others, although a 14 year old with no underlying issues died yesterday. However, we're not. Their teachers are not. They could be asymptomatic and infect us. We could die. I'm pretty certain they'd rather not be able to attend school for a period of time than to lose their parents, (particularly their father, lol, I'm more expendable. . .). Or they could infect their teacher and they could die, leaving their family bereft.

It's very sad this has happened at this time in their life. It has. If they don't get sick, (or die), and their parents dont get sick (or die), their wider family doesn't get sick (or die), their friends don't get sick (or die), I'm pretty certain they'll be able to make it up.

The ones I worry for, are the ones with abusive or impoverished homes.

Not my comfy little besoms.

madcatladyforever · 30/03/2020 17:49

I saw a story of a 13yo lad being arrested for not telling the police where he lived. They found out his address and then arrested his mum for not knowing where he was (in police terms, I'll find the article.)

i always knew exactly where my son was at 13, this is not just lock down negligence it's everyday negligence. No 13 year old should be roaming about the streets and the parents not knowing where they are - it's much too young.

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