Did China lie?

[User1775564212]

I was vaguely suspicious of the Chinese governments figures at the start of the outbreak although towards the end began to have more faith that the government were being honest.

Michael Gove’s comments along with the alarming stats from ours and other countries (numbers, ages, health conditions etc) are making wonder whether the Chinese government covered up a fair bit and I’m worried about where this leaves countries around the world... Talk me down...

They are a disgrace of a government, they treat their own like shit, so why should we believe a word they say?
They were shooting young unarmed students a few months back for daring to question them. They promise to sort out the wet markets but now they're getting back to normal, they're back again and just as disgustingly unhygienic and full of animal cruelty as before.
I don't think we should ever, ever, entertain trading with them again. Total boycott. I certainly won't be buying anything from them again if I can help it. I would rather support other businesses from our country and others effected by China and their bloody virus.

This is like a ‘faked moon landings’ thread!

There was an Israeli paper published very early saying it was made in a lab. It did not stand peer review and was withdrawn.

Corona viruses are a family of zoonotic viruses who can clearly use humans as a host. What is more likely: China invent a bio weapon with a 1% CFR and it escapes from a lab or yet another virus crosses the species barrier based on crowded conditions with animals close to people?!

You need to use Ockham’s razor here!

It is a particularly bonkers thread

Most of these pandemics originate from animals so why should this be any different?

No

The first official case in China is now recorded as 17th November

So the lies initially about it only starting in December at the very least

Yes, they've fabricated the number of cases and deaths.

It doesn't seem like something a corrupt, communist nation would do...

I will be boycotting China from now on.

We are lying about figures too- not enough testing

What do you mean? Are you saying that the number of positive tests is being under-reported?

They have kept the number of positives who are asymptomatic classified. To be counted in their official numbers you have to be symptomatic. They did a lot of contact tracing and testing during the lockdown so know a lot about asymptomatic spread which they are not sharing.

Someone somewhere is benefitting from this. Find them find the source.

But we are also overdue fir a pandemic

OP, the thing is why Michael Gove said this at this moment?

I heard China has some cases into hospital since Dec 19, then scientist analyzed the virus and found it is a new virus, and informed WHO on 3rd Jan or 7th Jan? I heard about this virus in Mid January from BBC, and started to pay attention to it.Then by 23rd Jan, Wuhan was put under lock-down, I was surprised and wondered why they do a lock-down with only a few hundred cases. But I can see how server the situation must be just by this.

Can't our government see this? Did government do anything at that time? No. Then at half term Mid February, Italy had a big cluster of cases, Italy put a few town under lock-down, we had thousands of people coming back from Italy, did government do anything? No. Still lots of people kept going on holiday in Italy, school trips went on

So Why Michael Gove was talking about China now? He is making excuse for the failure of the government's initial herd immunity policy.

The report in independent said it well, it's the political game he is playing.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-michael-gove-china-wuhan-covid-19-pandemic-a9432496.html

There are a lot of conspiracy theories around.
Facts - it was transferred through animals, China initially covered it up, it got out of control, WHO got involved, and now the numbers are accurate.

There was definitely a cover up /failure to take action in the beginning, regardless of the true source of the outbreak.
Re numbers lockdown in China is not like lockdown UK. Quarantine measures were strict and continue to be very strict for those returning to the country. They have also been very thorough in chasing contacts and isolating people regardless of symptoms.

I don’t think we can reply on stats that have come out of China. If they have manipulated results they have caused harm in other countries. We will have a better idea at the end of all this.

@BiBiBirdie
How do you know these wildlife markets are operating again?

I think as a unknown new virus, it started to hit the hospital in earlier December, they initially pinned it to a fish market, because most cases were from that market in earlier December. Then they found out actually there were people who don't have serious symptoms and can pass to people, and found some people had this virus earlier and was not linked to the fish market. So now people think it was November the virus started. But I don't think people know it in November. It's like Italy, when large amount of people hit hospital, actually there are lots of cases in the community already.

That's why it is hard to contain this virus, most people have it without much symptoms, and can pass it to other people.

are all the countries not slightly fudging the numbers? either by not testing everyone with mild symptoms, or listing the preconditions as cause of death?

Agree with Larry; Occam’s Razor is needed here - AKA the most simple explanation is usually the right one.

A paper was published recently in Nature (one of the best scientific journals) to show that the virus is naturally evolved; most likely from bats with pangolins as an intermediate host for transmission to humans. Bats, pangolins & humans all come into close proximity at wet markets. So it’s pretty conclusive that this is where it came from.

How are they going to stop it from getting to the rest of China? They're saying new infections are coming from the rest of the world. They can't stop it, they're going to get it again

I posted this link on a conspiracy theory thread but the way this thread is going I think some of you will enjoy reading it here too.
www.zerohedge.com/health/man-behind-global-coronavirus-pandemic

No, china never lies

Have they fucked up though?
They have this incredibly contagious virus that's ground the entire world to a halt. America their nemisis will be on its knees.

They have managed to contain it and now become very strong whilst the west is economically smashed.

Has it been so bad?

You need to use Ockham’s razor here!

Or perhaps you do.

A level 4 lab, studying bat related viruses preposterously close to an outbreak of a novel bat virus, cut with some snake and sprinkled with a little pangolin. That's quite the "cross over event", as they say.

The proximity of the lab is "hmmm", the fact that they were publicly declared to be working on exactly this sort of pathogen is 🤔 and the fact that the Chinese and their allies are now angrily accusing the USA of sending "operatives" into Wuhan in an act of mass murder and war is both crackers and highly concerning from a geo-political standpoint.

Have you not wondered why the most senior members of western governments have suddenly taken such a hard and aggressive stance on China's level of culpability? In rhetoric which would have seemed utterly crazy only months ago?

They know something. They just haven't told us yet. Or maybe they have.