Is no one even a little concerned about the intrusion and removal of freedoms?

[DoubleAction]

I know needs must and we're in a real crisis situation but it does make me a little uneasy to see how easy it has been to remove all freedoms.

The real shocker for me today was the text messages. I've spent the last year or so working on GDPR stuff and all the "threats" associated with that. Who gave the government all our numbers?!

I know it's insignificant in the scheme of things now but is it right that it's so easy?

I'm all for holding the government to account. I'm also all for holding everyone to account!

If it saves lives it has to be done

If it saves lives it has to be done

Closing all the roads would save a lot of lives, but we don't do it because of the cost to livelihoods. What will be the cost, in lives and livelihoods, after all these measures are over? People are missing cancer appointments, going to commit suicide, losing jobs and homes, and this is before the future even starts - a future of terrifying funding cuts and austerity to pay back the country's debt. The NHS could be even worse after this.

My Dgd has just come out of hospital where she has been for a week. She suffers from an auto immune blood disorder she has for life. She is just 18. She nearly bled to death last week because her own immune system started killing her platelets that clot your blood. The wonderful NHS has fixed her for now but she requires an operation to remove her spleen. There is no hope of that yet obviously because of the crisis. So, she is now stuck at home alone because her mum is a keyworker working in a small unit for young adults with severe autism. I am in middle of cancer treatment and on a 12 week lockdown. My Dgd needs to have someone to keep an eye on her in case her platelets drop. There is no one to do that as there is only us three. There is no one to do my shopping although the community is now setting up a scheme. There is no one to walk my dog unless I pay £15 an hour which is almost double what my DD earns. I keep an eye bus FaceTime with my Dgd. She has list everything these past weeks. The right to sit her A levels, not able to have a send off from school after 7 years of hard work or to say goodbye to her friends, or to celebrate the end of her schooling. She us worried suck she won't be awarded the grades she deserves it was predicted so she can start her University course at Kings College London. ( She didn't do mocks as was I'll). We all know the system to give them grades will definately be unfair especially for the disadvantaged. Amongst all this my Dgd has never uttered a word if anger, or moaning about loss of liberty, or being isolated, alobe, for 12 hours a day with a life threatening illness. If she can cope with all the shit that's been thrown at her these past weeks I'm sure we can put up with a bit of inconvenience. After all we have not list our freedom because we can come on here and elsewhere say what we like when we like. So folks just grin and bear it you really are saving lives. Just remember that!

What would people have rather happened instead?

@ineedaholidaynow - id have liked a bit more clarity in the sections relating to mental health, adult social care and provisions in EHCPs and some subtle changes of wording that supported these vulnerable groups better, over what could be a 2 year set of measures. I appreciate they are now timetabled to review every 6 months which helps - but after the last 2 years of hell regarding my child with SEN accessing basic healthcare i have zero faith in this specific area. That doesnt mean i'd have massively changed the concept or how the next 3 months plays out. I support staying at home to save lives.

twitter.com/jasonyanowitz/status/1238977743653687296?s=21

This is a sobering read from Italy. This is why we need to stay inside.

The funding cuts to public services after all this could be worse than corona

I will certainly repeat this comment by BeijingBikini @wanderings. It ought to be right at the top of every post about Corona.

There is an underlying agenda. I’m complying with the restrictions but I’m very suspicious.

There is an underlying agenda

What is it? What underlying agenda have global governments agreed on?

SmileEachDay - surely you’ve got lots of spare time to google what’s really going on?

Like some others have said, these restrictions are only happening because the entire population needs to pull together for the greater good. If all people were inherently good, there would be no need for restrictions and people would just follow advice rather than requiring instruction and force.

That said, I do not trust the UK government and did not vote for the Tories in December. I do not like their handling of this situation and feel that another party would have done significantly better. However, the limiting of freedoms for the time being is something that nearly every government worldwide is currently doing to combat a pandemic. This is not a freedom fight.

You sound so sure Plom that it’d be easier for you to just tell me.

I’m pretty busy homeschooling DC and teaching remotely but it’s be good to know what the global conspiracy is 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think if they'd done nothing, there'd have been riots as people piled up outside hospitals suffocating, and we could have had mass civil unrest. When people are dying in front of you it causes mass panic, even if that exact same number or more would have died over the next few years from the austerity when we have to pay back £330billion
I think you summed it up here, the trauma, shock, panic, civil unrest that likely would have ensued had the government not intervened would have caused more damage than the measures taken, although it's a delicate balancing act I think.

With all rights come responsibilities. At present it is our responsibility to stop spreading this virus to everyone else - and to do all we can to not catch it ourselves. The dead don’t have a lot of freedom. Quarantine means staying home. You are free to do what you like there. In a war freedoms are also curtailed - for example conscription is a pretty big intrusion but defeated the Nazis. Sometimes you just have to grow a pair. I’d rather send in and watch Netflix than have to send my son to the Western Front!

Hefty dose of realism is needed. If the government need to get a message out in a crisis situation then then available technologies should be used.
For many it may be a mild illness for others it is death. Temporary curtailing of freedoms is a small price to pay. I am one of the most anti tory folk you'd find but think desperate times ccall for extreme measures. And this is it.
By all means when we are out the other side shout loud and hard about governmental interference ( I certainly will if I think power is being abused) but to save lives now we need to suck it up and support each other.
Stay home, stay informed and for the love of the wee man wash your hands if you do go out and keep your distance - personally love this part as most folk annoy me at the best of times (joke! I'm actually a hugger - but not now!)

Rushed legislation that is introduced during a time of immense fear rarely gets the scrutiny it needs. Once it has been enacted it is used later for purposes it was not originally intended.

2 and a half years is a long time.

One medical officer to approve medical treatment against patient's wishes is not wise.

Medical freedom is important.

Deaths do not have to be investigated, bodies can be cremated without medical certification. The sharp end of this could be horrific!! We need these safeguards to ensure our safety, even under these extreme circumstances.

Local authorities obligations to provide duty of care is important, we cannot loose this. The existing powers to detain under mental health ground are sometimes problematic, under this legislation our most vulnerable are most at risk.

Yes... I am concerned.

The implications are obviously concerning but it’s about priorities. Along with millions of others, my biggest concern is trying to get my vulnerable family through this without losing anyone to it.

I’ll happily join any lobby going to minimise powers afterwards but right now, civil liberties comes way down the list.

Thanks, @HopeClearwater!

I've seen some amazing acts of kindness around me, too - neighbours self-organising to support the vulnerable, closing pubs donating their food supplies to Foodbank - but it still concerns me that, when asked to live outside their usual routine to fend off this enormous threat, some people are in effect saying "nah, mate, not interested".

At no point has it been suggested that we lose our rights. We're going through a pandemic thats killing people. At the moment it may look like there's less percentage die than flu but the Chinese are now experiencing a second wave. We don't know how badly it will affect everyone in the long run, for example long term lung damage. We've been asked to stay home for 3 weeks so we don't cross infect. Where's the problem with that ?

but it still concerns me that, when asked to live outside their usual routine to fend off this enormous threat, some people are in effect saying "nah, mate, not interested".

But the counter-argument to that is, lots of people (probably you too) would be totally unwilling to lose these sort of rights for things that happen to other people - few would be willing to lose rights to help the homeless, war/famine victims in Syria, starving people in Africa, child slaves in Bangladesh. So if people have no vulnerable people in their family, this virus is about as abstract and far away as a sweatshop worker is to someone who shops in Primark. People care more when it personally affect them (marathon runners don't tend to run for random charities - they run for some illness that affects their family) - so I don't know why people are so shocked. That's what we are like.

It’s in our own interests to follow the rules anyway because even if we don’t get covid19 but need a hospital for some other reason we won’t get the healthcare we need if the system is overloaded. So accepting the current measures is in everyone’s self-interest. Never mind the fact that most of us do care about someone who is vulnerable - young or old!

But the counter-argument to that is, lots of people (probably you too) would be totally unwilling to lose these sort of rights for things that happen to other people

I hear what you're saying, but to me the number of people getting behind the climate change campaign (for example) suggests that very many people are willing to think globally and act locally, as they used to say. And surely we need to scotch the notion that only vulnerable people catch the virus or die from it? Levels of risk may vary but nobody is immune.

Yes. I'm terrified of the disease but also very dubious of why the emergency powers need to last for so long - if the measures are being reviewed in 3 weeks, why can't the powers be reviewed then?

If you look at the countries putting in the strongest measures removing freedoms, it's not the countries where the disease is worst, it's the countries like Hungary where the disease is not a big problem but they have right wing, authoritarian leaders. I wonder if Johnson (or rather Cummings, the real PM) is similarly dictatorial.

Absolutely not - it's essential. If people weren't such irresponsible twats then it wouldn't be necessary. Now it is so just reap with you sow and what's a few weeks compared to these 'inconvenient' measure saving someone's life! FFS.