Destroying the economy for what? We need to lockdown!!

[Changedmyname84]

At the moment I feel like we are only half heartedly locking down. People are out and about - but not listening.

In the meantime we’ve taken kids out and people are losing their jobs! What needs to happen is the government needs to ENFORCE the lockdown to make all the others measures worth it - we seem to be destroying our economy for the sake of it at the moment because very few people are social distancing or taking this seriously.

I think some people presume it’s the end of the world and they are going to die anyway.

Lockdown needs to happen now. Before this all gets worse. It will be horrible but it will help so much.

Pubs, supermarkets, shopping malls all packed with over 70s here. They don't care

He thinks a central reguster should hsve been set up allowing over 70s to make informed decisions about isolating, with the caveat that they would accept not receiving intensive secondary care if needs be - so no families clamouring for a ventilator.
I am not an HCP but I agree with this. I know of plenty of older (70+) people who don't care about getting it. I think they should have the right to take the risk if they want. They should be able to then opt out of receiving a hospital bed. They should also be allowed to alter that decision though, otherwise doctors are going to have horrendous ethical issues - a whole other layer on top of the sort of thing facing Italian medics.

The thing is people need to take responsibility themselves...everyones circustances are different..

Maybe stop waiting to be told what to do, look at the facts, other countries, listen to the experts, read beyond the mainstream media and then see what your situation allows and requires.

There will always be selfish people who will ignore common sense and have no care as to the effect of their actions, but the rest of us can and should.

It's terrible. I only know a handful of people who are taking this seriously. I have reduced all of my own contact as far as is humanly possible but then I'm exposed to people who aren't at work. Has me on edge to be honest.

Agree snee. Healthcare is also about informed decision making. Why has gehre been this huge assumption that Mrs Miggins age 85 wants to live to 87 (end of her natural life) with 6 months of that in isolation. Lots of Mrs Miggins would be happy to have another 6 months only but being allowed to potter about and see her grandchildren. That is a perfectly acceptable decision to make as long as it is informed and properly documented.

@Taddda where I am I am seeing and hearing people carrying on as normal, families visiting, children in groups, teens in groups on the way home from activites.

There is a huge support group, and local people offering help so no real need to be exposed en masse.

The older people are not in sight so not heard them yelling at anyone. I checked on my elderly neighbour by phone as there had been no sign of life for a few days, am pleased to say there is now some washing out. I am getting a bit fed up with people picking on the older generation, when it is not just them that are out and about, there are plenty of others wandering about being selfish idiots. They might all be inconsiderate but selfishness is not just confined to the older folk, there are plenty of arseholes of all ages, and the younger ones are over here it seems.

For all of the worry, stress and uncertainty closing the schools have caused, and with people ignoring the advice about social distancing, I wonder if it would have been better to keep schools open but shut everything else. All bars, cafes, restaurants, non essential shops etc

There's no point schools being closed if people are just going out anyway.

A lockdown won't stop what is happening in the financial markets it's a worldwide shockwave. The money has to come from somewhere to fund what is already promised.

this huge assumption that Mrs Miggins age 85 wants to live to 87 (end of her natural life) with 6 months of that in isolation. Lots of Mrs Miggins would be happy to have another 6 months only but being allowed to potter about

Problem comes when Mrs Muggins actually gets the coronavirus and her lungs slowly start to fill with fluid over a period of days, leaving her gasping for air. At that point Mrs Miggins doesn't just lie back and say "this is fine, I've had a good life and I guess my time has come, I'll just suffocate to death slowly over the next 12 hours". Instead Mrs Miggins, Mr Miggins and all the junior Miggins beg for a hosptal bed, oxygen and a ventilator. It's irresponsible not to take this seriously

The thing is @sneeuw alot will be doing this and STILL expect the NHS care needed-

If anyone wants to take the risk, take it, but opt out of the care needed also.

But then how can we expect everyone to take 'suggestions' seriously, especially the elderly who will have had many 'suggestions' on health made to them through GP appointments....

Lockdown will be the only way to make people stop and take this seriously, or we risk following Italy but on a much larger scale.

^*For all of the worry, stress and uncertainty closing the schools have caused, and with people ignoring the advice about social distancing, I wonder if it would have been better to keep schools open but shut everything else. All bars, cafes, restaurants, non essential shops etc

There's no point schools being closed if people are just going out anyway.*^

I started a thread saying pretty much this and got called a snowflake.

Plus the 'key worker' plans are going to cause carnage.

@pocketem to add to Mrs Miggins story...her decision to take her chances will see her come in to contact with not only her family, but the NHS paramedics that now have to see to her, and all the other Miggins's...taking them to hospital to be seen and treated urgently by numerous Nurses/Doctors/specialists, using all the equipment available, putting at risk every other person they come into contact with....

But Mrs Miggins decided she'd 'take her chances'.....

So how bad do you think it will get before Boris realises he's got it wrong and needs to do a U turn.

I want a lock down.

I want the pubs and restaurants to close so my DD who is still having to work in the hospitality industry can be at home.

I have no objection whatsoever to having my freedom curtailed, it's already curtailed as I'm only going out to walk the dog and shop for food. I'm more than ok with only being allowed out of my house with a pass, hopefully then the selfish panic buying will stop and food and toiletries will be available. And the stupid selfish people who are still going to the pubs and restaurants will no longer be putting people like my DD at risk.

I was out walking the dog yesterday in my very quiet area, usually see very few people, and passed a house with one of those great big 'stop don't enter' signs on the door. The reality is that the person, or people, in that house is someone's family and loved one and if people don't start acting responsibly many people will die.

This thing needs to be taken seriously and our government needs to step up and govern.

Lots of Mrs Miggins would be happy to have another 6 months only but being allowed to potter about and see her grandchildren. That is a perfectly acceptable decision to make as long as it is informed and properly documented

Yes, that would be fine in isolation, but sadly Mrs Miggins and her friends will be spreading Covid 19 to her adult children via her grandchildren, and to other adults who have to go out to collect prescriptions or get essential food shopping.

I’m in a vulnerable group and had to go out yesterday. It was much quieter than normal except for lots of ‘Mr and Mrs Miggins’ wandering around the shops and making zero attempt to keep away from other people. It was incredibly stressful.

So it’s fine in theory if they don’t care and are happy to forego treatment, but they’re threatening others’ health and sabotaging efforts to limit the spread of the virus.

(Obviously the same goes for people under 70 who are acting like pr*cks too)

I've just been to collect dd's prescription in my small town centre, it is heaving. People queuing out the door of the shops, stood chatting to elderly with kids at their side etc. No social distancing whatsoever.

@VivaLeBeaver I’m not convinced we’re still not following the herd immunity plan by stealth

Yes, that would be fine in isolation, but sadly Mrs Miggins and her friends will be spreading Covid 19 to her adult children via her grandchildren, and to other adults who have to go out to collect prescriptions or get essential food shopping.

The vast majority of adults and children who get covid will be fine so long as no underlying health conditions. In fact, most of us will get it one way or another so avoiding it for otherwise well adult and children shouldn't actually be the focus.

The issue is protecting the vulnerable who won't be and who will need hospital admission - all efforts and support re: isolation should be channeled towards them. Over 70s etc who refuse to self isolate should not be classed as vulnerable if they make an informed decision not to. Anyone vulnersble should be left in self isolation and fully isolated. 85 year old Mrs Miggins shouldn't be classed as vulnersble if she choses to go out and has opted out of secondary care

I may be wrong but have told my next of kin to request no treatment if I need to be hospitalised. I have a living will. I am tired of the constant crap the world has become and this is the last straw.

I have no real contribution to make to society any more although a good few years life expectancy, I just don't see the point to struggling on when someone else can have a hopefully, decent life.

Respectfully,you are not going to be fine. You are extrapolating data from countries that have taken it very very seriously from the outset (China, Italy) and applying to the UK, that hasn't. Lots and lots of young people in their 49s and 50s are going to die now in the uk. The number could be less if as of today they put people into isolation. They won't.

The only behaviour you can control is your own, no point getting worked up about what we can’t control

The problem with the over 70’s being allowed to do as they wish is that if they catch the virus a high percentage will likely need hospital care, we will then have to face the heartbreaking situation that the Italian hospitals are dealing with right now, they can’t treat the elderly, they have to let them die.
Lots of elderly have the view that if their time is up then that’s their fate with little thought for the overworked, understaffed NHS who will be faced with the decision of whether to treat them or not. Anybody of any age who is not social distancing or isolating if advised to is selfish.
We are only on day 3 and it’s beyond boring and I’m feeling fed up but will continue because I want normal life to resume as soon as possible.

It's not just the elderly. I've just been for a long walk to get some fresh air and the cafes in my local high st are full of mums and kids. In the park the playground was full of children playing on the equipment, not just young children, school age too. And adults sitting chatting together and drinking coffee.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for doing the right thing. We should all be equal. It's no good saying that older people should stay at home while everyone else carries on as normal.