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Poor Boris

302 replies

Namechangervaver · 18/03/2020 17:54

He looks like he hasn't slept for a week. I never thought the day would come when I'd feel sorry for Boris and think that Trump sounded professional Confused(in his press conference today). Everything is upside down. We're fucked, aren't we?

OP posts:
UYScuti · 18/03/2020 21:03

Italy said isolate earlier based on their experience and the UK did not listen!
there are reasons why Italy was hit so hard and these reasons mean it makes sense to take a different approach in the UK
www.wired.com/story/why-the-coronavirus-hit-italy-so-hard/
communities.
In Italy, 23 percent of the population is over age 65, compared to the US, where that population is 16 percent. “Extended longevity has played some role in changing the population structure,” says University of Oxford demographer and epidemiologist Jennifer Beam Dowd, lead author of the new paper. “But it actually has most to do with how rapid the decline in fertility has been in a population.” That is, it’s affected more by Italians having having fewer children than it is by them living longer.
At the same time, young Italians tend to interact a lot with their elders. Dowd’s Italian coauthors note that young folks might live with their parents and grandparents in rural areas but commute to work in cities like Milan. Data on the composition of Italian households bears out this familial arrangement too.
The study’s authors argue that this frequent travel between cities and family homes may have exacerbated the “silent” spread of the novel coronavirus. Young people working and socializing in urban areas interact with large crowds, where they may pick up the disease and take it home. If they have no symptoms, they’ll have no clue that they’re infecting their elders, the most vulnerable population.

“We know now that the mortality is higher in older individuals, but what's not clear yet is why,” says Carlos Del Rio, executive associate dean of the Emory School of Medicine at Grady Health System, who wasn't involved in this research. For example, it could be a matter of older people having weaker respiratory systems, which could also lead to a higher mortality rate among seniors for diseases like pneumonia.
Other researchers studying why children don’t seem to get that sick from Covid-19 have pointed out the corollary: Kids tend to have “pristine” lungs that have not already been damaged by a lifetime of inflammation caused by allergies, pollutants, and diseases. This might make them more resistant to attack by the new virus.

Despite a full lockdown in place in Italy since the weekend, the virus has already spread far and wide. But with this kind of demographic knowledge, public health officials can better confront the threat elsewhere, Dowd says. “One of the points that we were trying to make is that it's not necessarily just about isolating the older population—we are identifying that they're the most vulnerable—but the general social distancing that's being encouraged to flatten the curve,” says Dowd. Flattening the curve means slowing the rate of new infections, buying researchers time to develop treatments and vaccines, and giving hospitals some respite. “I think our point was that's actually more important when you have a higher fraction of your population that is vulnerable,” she says.

Cornettoninja · 18/03/2020 21:07

Even if Boris developed the perfect COVID19 vaccine, people would still whinge about him

Give over. The delay over action and mad hatter fancies over herd immunity fixing this means a vaccine is the fucking least he could do. That bullshit will cost lives - he even stood there and told us that clear as a fucking bell.

I have no knack for sensing political moods after brexit and trump but I have no idea how a Tory government is going to play this one out when the dust settles.

Marieo · 18/03/2020 21:08

I would like to see anyone here take on his job at the moment. I am not a fan, but can stand behind him at a time like this.

Canshopwillshop · 18/03/2020 21:14

@Cornettoninja - you do realise that no matter what government was in place, the decisions on how to deal with this would be the same because they are being made based on advice by independent medical experts.

SubjectMatterExpert · 18/03/2020 21:23

This is most definitely NOT the time to stop whinging and get behind the government. This is EXACTLY the time to make a LOT of noise and put as much pressure on government as we can. We HAVE to make sure that the poor, elderly and sick are supported through this. And for as long as it continues, until people can go about their lives as normal

SubjectMatterExpert · 18/03/2020 21:24

It’s going to be EXPENSIVE and he won’t do it willingly

Inniu · 18/03/2020 21:24

But who chose the experts and who asked the questions that led to the U.K. going against WHO advice for over a week before changing their mind?

If your experts are saying something different to all the other experts you need to ask more questions.

The U.K. delay in implementing social distancing measures like closing schools and the huge lack of testing will cost thousands of lives.

If you are asking who could do better look at the countries who took earlier action and who are testing more.

SubjectMatterExpert · 18/03/2020 21:25

@Canshopwillshop you do know that people synthesis information differently and come to different conclusions depending on their own priorities

AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter · 18/03/2020 21:26

@UYScuti

Thanks for the info- thats v helpful.

Its quite worrying that Italy is reporting no reduction in deaths and they were hoping to see a small but significant change after a week or so:

"Dr. Giorgio Palù, the former president of the European and Italian Society for Virology and a professor of virology and microbiology of the University of Padova, told CNN he'd hoped to see the first signs of a change after just over a week of nationwide lockdown, but that has yet to materialize. "Yesterday we expected to have a change after almost 10 days of this new measure ... but it's still rising," he told CNN. "So I don't think we can make a prediction today."

Palù said that looking at the number of new cases on a graph, the slope of the curve is still rising, making it hard to impossible when the lockdown will start to reap tangible benefits"

Its not coming down yet which is very concerning

SubjectMatterExpert · 18/03/2020 21:27

ven if Boris developed the perfect COVID19 vaccine, people would still whinge about him

I would still whinge about him, because he is still a murderous bastard

ooooohbetty · 18/03/2020 21:29

Boris must be so fed up. PM was his dream job. But he has to sort out Brexit. Now the Coronavirus. And to top it all his girlfriend is pregnant. Grin

LeeMiller · 18/03/2020 21:32

He has squandered the two big advantages the UK had over Italy (and to a lesser extent Spain etc): time, and the opportunity to learn lessons from what other countries have got right and wrong. But instead of taking the advice of the WHO and the lessons from Italy, South Korea, etc to isolate early, test and trace as much as possible , the UK has been doing the opposite. Why was he only calling this week for businesses to make ventilators?

The messaging has been dire, they have been u-turning but not explaining things properly, you only have to look at the threads on here to see people are totally confused about what to do.

There is no way the numbers of deaths were ever anything but horrific for the mitigation "herd immunity" strategy, even if they were later revised upwards, yet he was willing to take that path.

He is still putting his libertarian ideals over the need to save lives, asking people to socially distance when it clearly isn't working and needs enforcing.

He is part of a party and was part of a government that have massively reduced the ability of the NHS and other public services to cope with this.

The rest of the world is looking on horrified at the UK's approach to this.

NellyGrace · 18/03/2020 21:35

I think for Boris, the Coronavirus challenge must be karma,

BestZebbie · 18/03/2020 21:45

It is the kind of twisted situation you’d get in a folktale where a Remainer found a magic lamp and asked the genie to force Boris to honour his bus promises of extra funding for the NHS... :-/

Bloomburger · 18/03/2020 21:49

Trump sounded like a twat, totally unprofessional, defeating this attacker type nonsense!!

Bloomburger · 18/03/2020 21:52

Corbyn will have already tanked the economy, we'd not have the billions needed to fight this and he'd throw the financial markets to the wolves believing they are expendable when we need them more than ever now.

I think Boris has played this in a sensible measured way. Listening to experts and trying to make steps to address every aspect of the economy whilst allaying fears and not letting politics steer his decisions.

midsomermurderess · 18/03/2020 21:52

I can't believe people are still referring to him as 'Boris'.

Jamclag · 18/03/2020 21:53

I agree with what others have said - Boris wanted his Churchillian moment. He hoped it would be Brexit where he could play the role supported by a wave of misdirected anger.

Anyway, this is the real deal Boris - this is what it really means to lead and act in public service - it's not just some game you can play to boost your own ego and line the pockets of your mates, whilst keeping your weekends clear and cadging free luxury holidays.

It would be funny if it wasn't so terrifying!

Mycatismadeofstringcheese · 18/03/2020 21:55

@BestZebbie

It is the kind of twisted situation you’d get in a folktale where a Remainer found a magic lamp and asked the genie to force Boris to honour his bus promises of extra funding for the NHS... :-/

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that.

Gorse · 18/03/2020 22:03

To be fair, the WHO were rather late in declaring a pandemic and have only recently been talking tough. Also, to be fair, Donald Trump was soundly villified (by said WHO, amongst others) when he stopped flights to and from China. It's a shame few others took that advice. I think Boris is doing a good job in circumstances where the stakes couldn't be higher. Personally I would have ordered a Chinese style lockdown before the virus even got a foothold in Italy, but of course, that wouldn't work here, where everyone is too special to adhere to strict rules. Only this evening on the news were untold numbers out in crowded pubs in Liverpool, celebrating St Patrick's Day, and bars full of students "it doesn't affect us so why shouldn't we go out?". For Christ's sake, if any of these people fall ill with Covid 19 it will be their own, stupid faults.
As for how the Labour party would perform, I shudder to think. I was a Labour party footsoldier for years, pre Michael Foot. Come the Foot and Mouth outbreak I witnessed the utter dog's breakfast the Labour government made of it, including and especially ignoring the recommendations made by a previous, highly respected scientific inquiry. The result was the rural communities were laid to waste and millions of animals were killed unnecessarily. I never voted Labour again, and never will. To imagine Cob on this job makes me shudder. It would take them months to decide if the 'war cabinet' was diverse enough and if transfolk should have priority in the ITUs. No bloody thanks.

NeckPainChairSearch · 18/03/2020 22:05

I can't believe people are still referring to him as 'Boris'

Most people I know usually say 'Fucking Boris,' if that's any help?

Cornettoninja · 18/03/2020 22:07

@Canshopwillshop oh I fucking realise alright.

I can see quite blatantly how out of step which ever advisors this government have on their payroll are with practically the rest of the world.

Whilst other countries were proactively putting measures in place and the WHO were publicly telling the U.K. it was/is wrong this government (figure-headed by good old glory hunter Boris) decided they knew best and delayed till now what should have been happening last week. They’ve happily ignored examples from countries handling this well - see testing stats.

I’m astounded that some people trust their leadership to the point they can say to their face ‘oh well people are going to die - thems the breaks’ and take their cue from that.

Yes this is an impossible situation so it’s actually quite impressive how Boris and his Tory mates have managed to fuck it up even more.

apricotnuts · 18/03/2020 22:07

Corbyn will have already tanked the economy, we'd not have the billions needed to fight this

National debt worse now than 10 yrs ago. Yes, Boris only in power since last summer but part of a govt whose austerity policy beginning in 2010 hasn’t worked - national debt has grown - and yet has left our public services more vulnerable. As some economists supported Labour’s plan impossible to say they would definitely not have worked. We do know the Tories haven’t protected the economy as a whole since 2010, just big business.

Alsohuman · 18/03/2020 22:11

Jesus, are people still bleating on about Corbyn and Labour? We haven’t had a Labour government for ten years. When are Tories going to own their mess?

apricotnuts · 18/03/2020 22:11

Yes this is an impossible situation so it’s actually quite impressive how Boris and his Tory mates have managed to fuck it up even more.

Agree. There were two strategies containment or herd immunity. Rest of the world chose containment, although not without challenges as once lifted without vaccine epidemic will spread again , our govt chose herd immunity. Realised risked too many lives now backtracking and lost us time.