To think that China needs to act

[Dongdingdong]

From what I understand, the coronavirus originated in a wet market in Wuhan that sold animals both dead and alive. According to the Telegraph, these markets "pose a heightened risk of viruses jumping from animals to humans because hygiene standards are difficult to maintain if live animals are being kept and butchered on site. Typically, they are also densely packed."

Also: "The animal source of the latest outbreak has not yet been identified, but the original host is thought to be bats. Bats were not sold at the Wuhan market but may have infected live chickens or other animals sold there. Bats are host to a wide range of zoonotic viruses including Ebola, HIV and rabies."

When this latest pandemic dies down, the Chinese government needs to ban these wet markets entirely. Will the rest of the world be putting pressure on them to do so or will we simply continue as before until the next pandemic breaks out?

Thanks for this thread OP- I mentioned the issue to someone and was told you can’t criticise china’s practices or lay any blame with the Chinese govt because it’s racist

I completely agree and accept that we need to separate the Chinese authorities and the Chinese people. For most Chinese, like for us, this has had a devastating effect and it would be wrong to try to blame them. Generalised xenophobia is of course unacceptable.

But the fact is this virus has caused worldwide devastation. There can’t be a single country not effected in some way. People have died, people have suffered, businesses and homes will be lost, the global economy is in meltdown and people are facing unprecedented infringements of their rights to move freely and live their normal lives. The impact is catastrophic. I don’t think we should be tiptoeing around the issue, citing cultural traditions as justification for this total shitshow.

The inhumane and downright dangerous practices need to stop, lessons need to be learnt (especially given the preceding SARS) and the Chinese authorities need to be held accountable.

I’m not for one minute suggesting other governments (including our own) didn’t also make mistakes during the course of this outbreak (and of course we’ve had our own scandal with BSE etc). But even when the virus was identified the Chinese authorities didn’t act swiftly enough to restrict movement etc.

Now is probably not the right time to seek sanctions and demand answers- but when this whole thing is finally over we definitely need reassurances that steps are being taken to ensure it never happens again.

Swine flu was not a pandemic - sighs

@Aridane What on earth are you talking about? The WHO describe it as a pandemic on their website FFS!

The 2009 “Swine flu” A(H1N1) pandemic started in Mexico where it caused severe illness in previously healthy adults and spread rapidly to over 214 countries and overseas territories or communities. Between 105 000 and 395 000 people are thought to have died.”

I would suspect China will do a major crack down, inspectors in every market, hunting down illegal traders, looking at food and live stock hygiene, harsh penalties, very harsh, but simply tell the world they have banned it and not go into any further detail.

I hope you’re right @Bluntness100, but I don’t hold out too much hope. Did anything really change long term in China after SARS?

This thread is showing extreme naivety. We know very little about COVID-19, or its source. It’s easy to blame China and the now notorious wet market, or the virology lab in Wuhan very close to the wet market (how handy!) - but I wouldn’t be too quick to do so. I don’t like laying blame at the best of times and I feel this situation has layers of complexity.

I think th thing people need to remember was this was not maliciously started, but could likely have been avoided if the Chinese authorities took more action previously,

We all knew the food and live stock practices in China, there is no surprise here, but the global community placed no pressure, likely because it was deemed cultural and as such a sensitive area. So everyone shares a responsibility for turning a blind eye.

However no one can turn a blind eye any more, this is just too huge, even if we fixed it tomorrow the impact has already been enormous globally.

People will naturally be angry, and many will want some form of punishment, but for me punishment is not the answer, it is about how to prevent something similar happening again as far as possible,

Bluntness, this too makes many assumptions. The Chinese may see our practices - factory farming on an industrial scale, mass butchery, etc. - as inhumane too. Most of us don’t know or care to know where our food comes from. If we did we’d be in for a shock. In any case, this virus still has unknown origins as far I’m aware, and ascribing blame is unwise.

It’s not about it being humane or not. What it’s about is protecting human and animal health. No one cares if one culture sees something as humane and the other not. What is being discussed here is how to protect human and animal health, that’s the issue.

Have a google of ‘Chinese sweatshops in Italy’ There is an article from the New Yorker two years ago about the slave conditions, direct flights to bring the people in. This is have the virus was brought to Europe.

The Chinese say they have banned the wildlife markets, this trade is decimating the world’s wildlife

It’s early days before we can say where exactly the virus started and how we can mitigate that in future.

But I most certainly think the Chinese government’s response was appalling and I wonder if those whistleblowers really did die of the virus.

I also think our own government has responded too slowly and I’m still amazed at the lack of testing. I’m also angry at our NHS being decimated over the last ten years.

Not only has the uk responded too slowly, but the advice is also too vague. I went to get some food today and saw people at the pool, in the gym and in cafes. This is not social distancing. We need to look at how this is being managed in Asia.

"A MNetter who lives in Shanghai has said a while back the Chinese government are clamping down on these practices."

yes, the markets were banned a couple of months ago.

I will be boycotting all goods made in China from now on

Good luck with that; such is China's saturation of the world market that it may be almost impossible. In any case I've no seen any suggestions that movement of Chinese goods should be restricted, only of people

A further point I've not seen mentioned is that within democracies the population get at least some say in how policies around safety, etc, are applied, and rational people can bring pressure on governments to make changes deemed necessary

Again, good luck wih that in China

Apologies - goodness knows where those tellow highlights came from

Sadly, i don’t see much in the way of rational behaviour: over 70s out in cafes, shops open, people at the gym...

Me neither Shanghai I have no idea what the govt is doing

We need to severely curtail buying cheap stuff from these kinds of country. There's a reason things are cheap - it's because they don't have the same standards as in the West, i.e. hygiene, tracability, etc.

How about we start rearing our own animals in the UK again, grow our own crops, manufacturer our own goods, etc., where possible and severely restrict the things we have to import. Yes, it will cost more, but it will still end up cheaper than the hundreds of billions this crisis is going to cost us.

You're not wrong, ShanghaiDiva, but it's the principle I was thinking of rather than individual choices.
At least anyone over here who stumbles into rationality has a chance of making a case to government about what they feel should be done ... which is somewhat less likely in a communist state

The Chinese may see our practices - factory farming on an industrial scale, mass butchery, etc. - as inhumane too

I can assure you that most don’t. Animal cruelty laws are currently nonexistent in China. I was told by an activist that this was due to the influence of farmer groups. They have not yet been able to get separate laws at least for domestic pets either likely because of the meat trade. They are trying very very hard so hopefully things will change now, if not for animal welfare then for human health.

The dog meat trade is horrific. There is CC footage of people stealing large pet dogs to sell them as dog meat. Beloved pets. I also knew of a case in Shanghai where someone was passing off cat meat as rabbit. Some of the cats yet to be processed still had collars; these were also beloved pets.

You can’t what-about these things away. Sorry.

There are major problems in the procurement and safety of animal products. Stealing animals off the street (or from the wild) and selling them happens all too often; I can only imagine what I’ve been eating in my years in China 🤮

How about we start rearing our own animals in the UK again, grow our own crops, manufacturer our own goods, etc., where possible and severely restrict the things we have to import. Yes, it will cost more, but it will still end up cheaper than the hundreds of billions this crisis is going to cost us

I imagine visa restrictions for Chinese nationals are going to get tough again, it’s really quite a shame.

But I don’t think the UK could actually be self-reliant in this day and age. Especially if you want to keep your carbon emissions down 🤣🤣😂

But I don’t think the UK could actually be self-reliant in this day and age.

Which is why I said "where possible". We've not been self-reliant for centuries, but the last few decades have been quite ridiculous with the way the UK's fishing, farming and manufacturing industries have been scaled right down in the name of cheap imports.

@MangoFeverDream
Yes, try to thing about some of the more ‘unusual’ offerings in China. It’s definitely a long way from sweet and sour pork balls from a uk takeaway!

That should be: try not to think about!

I can only imagine what I’ve been eating in my years in China

I suspect that you really, really don't want to know