So that's effectively everyone who works in a pub, club, theatre or restaurant out of work for at least 12 weeks?

[DoubleAction]

Is it? Or am I misunderstanding something?

Most of those won't be paid if they don't work and there won't be any customers.

Unless I missed it there was nothing said about them or what support there will be for them

John Redwood @johnredwood
Time for a big package to help the self employed and all those businesses who have just lost most of their turnover. They need more than loans. They need tax holidays and help with payroll costs.

The budget forecasts from the Treasury and OBR were absurd. The virus effects will overwhelm them this month and were visible on Budget day. We need new forecasts based on the realities so we can adjust policy to more realistic figures. We need to battle the sharp downturn.

Wow.

Doesn't sound like Redwood is impressed by Cabinet and Leadership

I doubt it ever existed for those companies who use lists. I've worked in a relevant area- insurance t&c changes don't tend to happen very quickly (except when they've fucked up or need to remove something) and I doubt that they would have added it as by the time the approval process was complete the scale of the likely issue was already very obvious. Heck the travel insurers (often the same companies) started specifically excluding covid a few days ago now and their policies are written differently.

The only ones which would be covering would be those whose notifiable disease clause is something like "any condition defined as a notifiable disease by the government at that time " which won't be many.

True yes that was what he said to look for.

I saw a post from a local restaurant telling Boris to get stuffed, the British people will keep calm and carry on, and it was business as usual. Loads of posts saying the same and that they'll be in at the weekend. Ironically, these are people who most likely voted for him.

I don't think people are getting it. They don't want to hear it so they're saying the government and media are making it up.

As for the businesses, a lot of them will be struggling at this time of year. Faced with basically no summer, they'll go under unless he bans it so the insurance companies can pick up the cost, but looking at the sheer scale of claims, this could break them too. They aren't well known for looking out for the little guys, are they.

Even banning it might not mean the insurers pick up the cost. Many of these businesses will go to the wall. Others - those who actually own the premises or can get rent breaks for example - will only survive by laying off all staff to minimise costs.

"People don't just become carers for vulnerable people overnight, ffs.
Ever heard of enhanced DBS checks, references?"

We could go back to the 1970s:

As a 19-yr-old uni student then, I had a 3-month summer vacation job which was advertised as a cleaner in a care home for the elderly, but helping carers if needed

It turned out to be mostly care work

I was not asked for references - too young I suppose - and DBS checks didn't exist until decades laterlater

Much potential for abuse if the UK reverts to this, but the alternative as care staff have to isolate for 2 weeks at a time, or become ill for weeks longer, is even riskier

Bcf, there is a huge risk there. Also a huge risk if there is no one at all to look after those who need care.

We are between rock and a hard place.

• My DC got a call from #job1 just under an hour ago saying they're laying off staff now, because they'll have gone under by the weekend.

Her #job2 got canned yesterday.*

Your poor DC and you :-(
What jobs/industries?

People are losing jobs. I know a few did today

That's awful :-( What kind of industries?

Restaurants can do take out.

Last night a deliveroo rider in my large city told me it was "dead" and no one was ordering. The manager of a well known chain restaurant told me takeaway orders were down 50% on normal yesterday.

I'm afraid it's not as simple as you think.

Yes, I would expect a good proportion of takeaway business is for small gatherings of family and friends, so it would follow that orders will be down. Households may still order, but I can imagine if you're living alone, can't have any friends round, the number of occasions to order takeaway would fall.

In which case yes the insurance guy was weasly.

"some insurers are offering cover" probably translated to "I found one tiny specialist insurer who only offer policies to undertakers, and they're offering business interruption cover for it!"

What is the clause that means insurance cover you if they force it. Anyone know?

Stat yep!

For us, it is our loss of revenue cover which includes cover if we are forced to close by various government bodies due to an outbreak of a notifiable disease. There's other clauses in the same section about restricted access, loss of utilities, etc

I can see this hitting the building industry badly as well. Seems to be never ending :/

Also people aren't going to be ordering takeaways if jobs are precarious / lost or they're relying on statutory sick pay. ........I know if we're having a skint month Netflix and takeaways / treat foods are the first thing to go.

In respect of Business Interruption cover, the majority of insurers I deal with have a list of notifiable diseases. Covid-19 is not one of them. So why people are being advised they can make a claim is beyond me.

You need a general clause for it to work Draughty. Probably rarer than hens teeth.

On R4 guy said forced closure would make no difference on insurance and if it did it’s too late. Need cash now. Waiting for state aid announcement.

There has to be some kind of pause button, a living wage, or the world being on standby for a while. Isn't money a concept more than anything these days. Can economists, countries and businesses make the concept of money less important for a few months? An example of this is ALL mortgages put on hold by the lenders, and ALL rent put on hold while this is happening. Rent and mortgages make up such a large part of outgoings.
A living wage should be given to cover food and utilities etc. As no-one is going out expenses will lessen.

Surely there needs to be something in place to say people can have a payment holiday for mortgage, loan or credit cards as this is a major situation that will likely result in riots if nothing is done. A lot of us are struggling financially anyway, this will tip some over the edge.

Cross posted with you Charley!

Yes just stop re t, mortgage, utility far more effective than relying on insurance that may never pay out. Forced closure wouldn’t change it (unless someone knows the clause).

@StatisticallyChallenged - Even if you did have policy which covered any notifiable disease, your insurance company would find a way to weasel out of it.

Aided and abetted by the British Government.

but restaurants can offer food deliveries (which will be needed more than ever) or collection of meals

With long term economic insecurity now inevitable, many people - us included - will be tightening their belts not ordering takeaways.