Worried about corona virus thread 27

[Michelleoftheresistance]

New Thread.

I will copy over all the links in a min.

@OldQueen1969

And it got me wondering, as he crowed about our fantastic specialist manufacturing capabilities in this country - just how many firms can switch to this sort of production of specialist equipment just like that?

As an ex-Quality Manager in exactly the type of place where these would be manufactured, my eyes almost rolled into the back of my head.

There are SO many problems with this, too many for me to get into, but the long and short of it is: this is absolutely impossible right now.

Regardless of all the regulations surrounding medical products that would need to be followed, there is a worldwide shortage of electronic components.

Lead times of 1 year + on capacitors.

Even IF by some miracle Siemens (for example) had the materials you needed for an unrelated product, and you begged them to sell, and you had staff working overtime (and none of your supply chain staff were affected with self-isolation), and you were only expecting a rapid prototype standard of product, and the gov was willing to except that standard, and you were allowed to skip the huge qualification stage of the product lifecycle (thus putting future patients at unknown risk).....

Even if all that happened, they should have been putting designs out in December for any hope of having these small (

@cocodomingo

Many thanks.

Whelp.

@InASense

Thank you for your insight and opinion.

I was hoping I was being overly pessimistic in my thoughts.

Looking at the stats the UK epidemic is about 1 week behind our EU neighbours France, Germany and Spain, and about 2 to 3 weeks behind Italy. People are watching the news reports from Europe and waking up the fact that this threat is very real, not "just the flu", so it's not surprising that fear and panic is spreading.

I despair of newspapers ramping up the panic by using headlines along the theme of "We're All Doomed!" That helps no one. The truth is bad enough, there's nothing to gain by scaremongering.

I'm glad that the government is thinking of using hotels as temporary hospital facilities - seems like a good idea. Also, no doubt they will get the army involved, in giving support where needed. I think that now the numbers have risen people will be more accepting of tough measures - I think the govt waited for this to happen, so that the public would unite and be more compliant with the lockdown. If they shut schools early for Easter (and perhaps beyond then), I think they also need to shut cinemas, restaurants, bowling alleys, etc, otherwise some families will just treat the closure like a nice extra holiday period and go out and about, entertaining their kids, and the virus will actually spread faster than if the kids are in school.

I don’t understand how they can suspend in-person teaching at universities but keep services like libraries open? The library I work in has over a thousand students at a time and we don’t expect this to drop significantly now lectures and seminars are online. The students can choose not to come to the library but staff are obliged to expose themselves to possible infection.

suspend in-person teaching at universities but keep services like libraries open?

Same - very strange.

@todayisnottuesday We work on the front desk coming into contact with hundreds of students and some of my colleagues are over 60 I understand that libraries are really important to students, but this is an unprecedented situation and normal life can’t be expected to continue.

Channel 4 News - ' “That’s not going to delay the epidemic it’s going to escalate it,” says Professor of Global Health Anthony Costello in response to the UK’s policy to ‘stop population testing’. '

We work on the front desk coming into contact with hundreds of students and some of my colleagues are over 60 sad I understand that libraries are really important to students, but this is an unprecedented situation and normal life can’t be expected to continue

No, my point was - my Uni has stopped all face to face classes but kept the library open - I think the library should also close.

@InASense
That’s very interesting and very useful to know. Thanks.

I give up on this government!!!

I don’t understand how they can suspend in-person teaching at universities but keep services like libraries open

The hope is that all students will go home ASAP but that the universities won't actually close. That way students won't have grounds to claim back tuition fees, which would be financially ruinous for universities in the current fee regime.

The govt could make that go away by guaranteeing university fee income for this year and next but of course it won't. So universities will stay "open" until told to close. But students will go home - many already have.

@InASense
That's interesting to know. My first though when this was announced was how? How on earth would any company just be able to switch to making such high level sensitive equipment at short notice.

My second thought was who would supervising these extra ventilators in the CCUs.

The NHS is so stripped bare now. Even if the government had given the funds it needs back in early February, recruiting and training CCU nurses surely isn't instant.

There doesn't seem to be any planning in place to get ahead of this virus and we have to think smart and be ahead.

It reminds me a bit of the reports of people watching the tsunami from the beaches in Thailand just before they were swept away.

Surely the best way to do this is to put the country into lockdown sooner rather than later, whilst pouring decent money into the NHS and getting ventilators and extra CCUs set up.

The delay in the virus hitting hard might give us time to properly put in place the medical care needed. Otherwise large numbers are going to suffer horribly.

But I fear it might already be too late.

I've got corona. I've had paramedic assessment after 111 urged me to go 999 and they told me that I probably didn't but if I did it was mild. My symptoms are like many who have been tested positive, particularly temperature and breathing difficulties. Paramedic just had face mask, goggles and apron. Madness. Why they are only counting a cough and temperature now, and have dropped the breathing part, fuck knows. And there are many other symptoms!

This country's gvmt is an absolute mess and a disgrace. The policy seems to be saying the word science, then running away and hoping everyone shuts up.

Concerts, marathons, no testing, no containment, herd immunity bollocks. It's an absolute embarrassment. And so fucking dangerous!

.

The telegraph article has really bothered me.

It seems like our response is worse than Italy's. We've now got a situation like Italy brewing because doctors have been exposed and are cross infecting other patients. Except we should have known and had warning. We've just not taken precautions. And now we've stopped testing. And we've less capacity in hospital and no way of getting ventilators because we've no support in resources because we are outside the EU.

I'm very grim and stony faced atm.

I don't see how death here won't exceed Italy at this point.

David Sinclair @davidasinclair
Since my Harvard lab closed yesterday, I've been reading and interpreting this week's published papers on #COVID19. What follows is a thread of information, my interpretation, links to sources & predictions. Let's start with what you need to know... #coronavirus #COVIDー19

Treatments that seem to work are chloroquine (a cheap malarial drug), Gilliad's remdesivir with interferon-beta (in clinical trials from COV-19), plasma from recovered patients, and a steroid (methylprednisilone). Doctors in US are now using remdesivir off-label...

SARS-CoV2 attacks pneumocytes in lung, intestine, heart & cells lining blood vessels. In lung, CoV2 prevents cells from making biological detergents to keep lung passages open. Acute respiratory distress follows. O2 levels fall..but there's may be a dangerous underlying process..

..new work out of China yesterday says COVID-19 might also involve abnormal blood production. CoV genes 1 & 8 are predicted to interfere with heme, the red compound in blood, by kicking out the iron. Would explain why chloroquine seems effective as a treatment
#CoronaVirusUpdate

Chloroquine is predicted to prevent orf1ab, ORF3a and ORF10 from attacking heme (red in red blood cells) and inhibit the binding of ORF8 to heme. Although 99% of the virus is seemingly stable, what's disturbing is ORF 1 and 8 are mutating the fastest...

..Positions nt28144 in ORF 8 and nt8782 in ORF1 are evolving. Samples out of China show they'd mutated 30.53% (29/95) and 29.47% (28/95), respectively. I'm currently figuring out why these are the ones mutating and how that would change the situation...

It may explain why diabetics and elderly are more susceptible. Blood sugar levels usually increase as we get older, increasing the amount of glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c) (I've tweeted about this before). The authors suggest these people would be more susceptible to because...

...the virus could more easily disrupt the heme in red blood cells. If so, the virus is very smart: it destroys the lung so patients can't take up oxygen AND reduces the body's ability to carry oxygen. (For this & other reasons, you should eat healthily the next 2 years)...

These ideas are testable. COVID-19 should correlate with HbA1c levels (seems true). Patients should have abnormalities in heme/porphyrin & they might have higher levels of free iron in tissues & blood. I will update with more info as it comes in. Stay safe. Below are links...

Blood, HbA1c, and chloroquine
t.co/Bpac6gcR4W
CoV2 mutations
t.co/a7DZHUhs0E
Symptoms
t.co/c5MlxZSUW6
Susceptibility/Risk
t.co/54ejW9kfGn
Fatality
t.co/kmCMEU9Y6K
Therapies
t.co/h2bTQqJecS
Remdesivir
t.co/o4VVQ4QeMX

Garry Stewart @garryfstewart
Would supplementing with iron or eating more food with high iron content help?

David Sinclair @davidasinclair
If this is correct, yes.

Tim Hogan @timjhogan
Wow. MGM temporarily closing Las Vegas properties starting March 17th:

Aria
Bellagio
Excalibur
Luxor
Mandalay Bay
MGM Grand
Mirage
New York New York
Park MGM
Vdara

Brian Castner @brian_castner
This is unreal. When I ran the military bomb squad in Las Vegas, we had special procedures for dealing with an IED on the Strip because it was too expensive for the casinos to close for a single MINUTE.

english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2020/03/16/Worries-grow-over-hospitals-in-north-Italy-as-coronavirus-toll-grows.html
Worries grow over hospitals in north Italy as coronavirus toll rises

Italian authorities voiced growing concern on Sunday over how much longer strained health systems could cope with the coronavirus outbreak, as thousands of new cases were recorded over the past 24 hours and several hundred more people died.

And

The head of the civil protection authority, Angelo Borelli, said that Lombardy had been able to transfer some patients to other regions. He also said he was so far unaware of any cases of patients dying because of a lack of intensive care facilities.

But the health systems in Lombardy and in other regions like Emilia Romagna and Veneto at the epicenter of the Italian outbreak have been pushed to their limits.

“The numbers have continued to grow. We’re close to the moment where we will have no more intensive care beds,” Lombardy governor Attilio Fontana told SkyTG24 television.

And

The big challenge will be to see how far we can succeed in keeping Milan, the metropolitan area, away from a mass phenomenon with the disease,” said Massimo Galli, head of the infectious diseases unit at the city’s Sacco hospital.

Authorities have been working to set up hundreds of intensive care beds in a specially created facility in the Fiera Milano exhibition center but are still waiting for sufficient respirators and qualified personnel.

Behind the concern for the north, where intensive care and assisted breathing units were at saturation point, there was also a looming worry over the much less well-equipped south, where tens of thousands of people have arrived from the affected regions.

Nello Musumeci, president of the Sicily region, said at least 31,000 people had arrived from northern and central areas in the past 10 to 12 days and registered with authorities but the real number was much higher.

In the US the religious right view science as liberalism and therefore are acting as if its evil

Julie Zauzmer @juliezauzmer
“One pastor said half of his church is ready to lick the floor, to prove there’s no actual virus,” an Arkansas pastor told me. “In your more politically conservative regions, closing is not interpreted as caring for you. It’s interpreted as liberalism.”

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/without-guidance-from-the-top-americans-have-been-left-to-figure-out-their-own-coronavirus-solutions/2020/03/15/9875aa64-6550-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html#click=t.co/n1pweTSS3Q" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.washingtonpost.com/politics/without-guidance-from-the-top-americans-have-been-left-to-figure-out-their-own-coronavirus-solutions/2020/03/15/9875aa64-6550-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html#click=t.co/n1pweTSS3Q
Without guidance from the top, Americans have been left to figure out their own coronavirus solutions

This is mirrored elsewhere...

m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iranian-Shias-lick-kiss-shrines-in-defiance-of-coronavirus-outbreak-619428/amp?__twitter_impression=true
Iranian Shias lick, kiss shrines in defiance of coronavirus outbreak

“Stop scaring the people this much with coronavirus,” said one man as he filmed himself at the Fatima Masumeh shrine in Qom, attacking those who have stopped visiting the shrine due to the outbreak. The man then kissed the walls of the entrance of the shrine. “Stop toying with people’s beliefs – coronavirus is nothing in the Shia shrines.”

I dread to think about what is about to happen in the US.

I think someone posted on a previous thread (this is moving so fast) the post 92 universities are the ones being stubborn, are they more likely to close this week? It feels like the mood of the country has really changed since Friday.

Really dreading going into work today. Haven't really slept well.
Care home.Very short staffed. 3 staff already off self isolating, the rest panicking due to our poorly service user (who also happens to be the person we need 4 to do personal care with as she is physically very aggressive, and who we are trying to isolate as she has all the symptoms but no chance of keeping her on her own really), no guidance from local authority, PHE, Social services... and I'll have to start looking around scrabbling for PPE again...(the gloves order should come today and I've Been told it won't be anywhere near the full order).

I'm so angry at the lack of planning and leadership on this. I know it's unprecedented but in those cases why the fuck we didn't eir on the side of caution-why we STILL aren't actually-is beyond me.

Cnn @cnn
Several cruise ships are stranded at sea, some with confirmed coronavirus cases onboard, as the pandemic expands around the globe.

Some ships have been denied port, leaving them to anchor off the coast of a country. Other cruises have docked with quarantined passengers aboard.

Three cruise ships have confirmed cases of coronavirus on board: the MS Braemar, Silver Shadow and Silver Explorer.

The MS Braemar has at least five confirmed coronavirus cases, four passengers and one crew member, and is frantically searching for a place to dock after it was refused several ports of entry in the Caribbean.

On the Silver Shadow, a Canadian passenger tested positive for coronavirus Saturday. The ship is currently docked off the port of Recife in Brazil, according to Brazil's state news agency Agencia Brasil.

Meanwhile an 83-year-old British passenger on the Silver Explorer, which is docked in Castro, Chile, tested positive for the virus Saturday, Chile's Health Minister Jaime Manalich said during a news conference in Santiago.

If you don't understand how bad this is yet then I'm jealous.

Casinos in Vegas are shutting and we are still twiddling our thumbs thinking about it.