Omg. The next step in the strategy. And if we all stick together it may work

[Bool]

Next step in UK strategy. Lock down all the over 70s (and other immunocompromised - kids / adults) for 4 months. Lock them down. Then make it illegal to close schools. That means we gain immunity to the virus as a population and keeps the beds open for the unusual cases that are not foreseen.

Loads of vulnerable people have to attend hospital frequently for life saving treatment, dialysis and chemo etc.

Many GPs are telephone now anyway

@SnoozyLou

@UserV Completely agree.

It isn't the language that's putting posters' backs up, OP. It's the arrogance and high-handedness. You talk about your own parents, yet speak of these "oldies" "clogging up beds". It's all very callous. Did you write Boris's speech by any chance?

Thank you.

Totally agree with you. And this thread is just so nasty. I am hiding it now. It's really getting my back up.

@AlexaAmbidextra taking one for the team means a strong person getting covid-19 and be willing to die to build population immunity

There are many reasons that older people may not want to lock down. But then frankly they may die. The death rate of over 70 is high in Italy. And the incubator rate is even higher - probably 70%+. They are clogging up the beds. They are the ones who are causing the breakdown of the system. So let’s keep them away from the virus for 4 months. If it was the other way round eg the kids who were most vulnerable then we would be wrapping them in cotton wool. So let’s do the same for older people. Seriously I don’t see another solution.

My husband used to work on a project in London few years ago. Coming back to Ireland he would always just sigh with relief and say he’s glad to be back to a society which treats people with humanity and compassion and where people actually treat each other with respect.
This post just confirms it.

People dont follow rules unfortunately even now. My DD turned down a party tonight celebrating St Patricks day but her friends are all out in the pubs drinking and socialising. I know they are not the age group being isolated but this is so far the opposite of taking a responsible attitude I am gobsmacked. Her friend has posted a photo of her sharing a straw in a cocktail with a friend, it isnt going to work is it.

You have to isolate them. Solutions will be found to pharmacy/gp/dentist etc - most likely a home visit scheme so they are only being exposed to 1 person in receiving that care (who can be tested regularly) rather than many when they go out to receive it.

If only we could lockdown the OP

@UserV you misunderstand me completely so am glad you are hiding this thread if you think it abhorrent that we try and protect our most vulnerable.

Really how can there be no dentist/GP apps? Dental neglect may cause angina and death, or if the pain is acute! I don't mean just check-ups but e.g. my mum is due to take a few teeth out/correct crowns as otherwise the gums will rot. She can't wait a month even.
Also GP apps, what if hteir existing conditions worsen but not enough to go to A&E - wait till it gets to A&E stage?

You can't home visit a lot of dialysis.

Also where are the resources going to spring from to do home visits?

MP Louise Haigh nailed it on Question Time. “Since when as a country did we not care about older people or those with an underlying health condition?”

There are several issues with this virus which makes it difficult for everyone.

1. Everyone can catch this disease - no-one has any immunity to it
2. A mild case of the disease is one in which you do not require oxygen. This means a mild case could still be two weeks with the flu like symptoms or pneumonia
3. The test for the disease is a complicated genetic test which takes up to 3 days to complete. Consequently the number of positive tests is much less than actual cases as only those who have been hospitalised get tested.
4. The number of new cases is rising by 33% per day. (The last couple of days has been higher than that)
5. The actual number of cases, based on infection rate rises and length to time from infection to death is likely to be much higher than the reported rate (probably over 300 000 so far)
6. Across the country there are 4000 ICU beds suitable for hospitalised patients. Based on current growth rates, those beds will be full of COVID patients within two weeks.

Getting over 70s, where possible to self isolate will slow the infection rate in the group most susceptible to the virus and may mean that the beds do not fill up as quickly (bearing in mind that these beds are required for all medical conditions). It may be impossible for some people to self isolate but the more that can the better it will be for them and others as well.

Equally, if it the lack of beds leads to doctors having to make a decision as to who gets a bed (as it already has in Italy) it will almost certainly be the older patient who will miss our.

Dealing with this virus and it’s consequences is going to be difficult for every government across the world. Our government is being guided by scientific advisors and, for the moment, is following their advice. They should not be criticised for that (though clearly this is not an area where there is scientific consensus)

The alternative is an Italy situation where people can’t get care. Mostly old people.

This is better isn’t it.

@aridane why do I need locking down? Please explain.

And what if we don’t build up ‘herd immunity’? What if we can catch it more than once?

Statistically I hope so - if such care is provided, I'm all for it. Debtists of course can't bring euipment for home visits but maybe edertly can travel by taxi and not stay in waiting rooms.

Perhaps the young and fit who are keen to take one for the team would like to form a healthcare volunteer legion. There are many countries who could do with such help.

I wonder how many MPs and Lords would be locked down in this scenario.

There seems to be a lot of willingness to refuse medical treatment, confine in care homes, bring back into medical practice, relocate, isolate, ban from family contact and stop current medical treatment for people defined as older.

Questions:

1. Who is going to pay the salaries and mortgages of people with suppressed immunity should they have to self-isolate?
2. Who is going to pay salaries, mortgages of people living with the above category and the elderly if they live in one household and need to self-isolate with them?
3. Who is going to take care of those who need the care because they’re too weak or ill to take care of themselves?
4. Who on this forum has ever heard that people, especially the elderly suffer from loneliness and considered the impact of long self-isolation on their mental health?
5. The herd immunity plan is currently akin to a breeding plan for unicorns. No vaccination and people can reinfect. Who’s to say this isn’t eugenics?
6. How are those people going to get their treatment, such as dialysis, chemo etc?

People saying what if the elderly needed doctors or hospital appointments etc. I presume this would be okay as it would be essential.
The idea would be on a population level surely to minimise risk? You're never going to get 100% compliance or a totally perfect solution.

Sorry, this is misguided theory. The theory of herd immunity works on the basis that the herd majority becomes immune by catching the disease and making antibodies that make them immune. This herd immunity is normally carried out by vaccine. Without this, you have no way of safely increasing the herd immunity because 20% of the herd that you are suggesting should get ill to develop this immunity end up in ICU. Without ICU most of this 20% would die. The present govt plan doesn't have legs as you cannot have a delay process that the govt just suggests they are implementing just states wash your hands and carry on. the govt has allowed behavioural science to overtake virological and other directly applicable science. They also are more concerned about the economy than saving lives their own experts admitted this is very relevant and is being taken in to account. Developing a herd immunity will happen if it is going to over a lengthy amount of time and the process should be one as other countries are implementing. Are you happy to carry on life to take the chance that you may be one of the 20% but knowing some fringe scientist has suggested poss let the herd get infected and then it will die out? If you listen to the interview he gave on C4 his argument is that the elderly are going to die whether you have a lockdown and therefore why delay the inevitable. Ask yourself is a behavioural scientist really the one that we should be listening to - his argument about not closing schools was that children will just get together elsewhere. Can it be that all the scientists throughout the rest of the world are wrong and the few scientists that have come up with this bizarre way of dealing with something that has the potential to kills 20% of people over 30 are right are you willing to put your money on them or the WHO and the rest of the world's specialists?

95% of the cases in China would have been prevented if the Chinese took immediate actions 3 weeks before they did. Are you willing to take this theory and economics before the life that the govt is relying upon which nobody else in the world agrees with when it comes to your families lives? 21 people died today and poss none of them had to as the UK has had 3 months to put into place processes of containment and testing yet they have tested 37000 in total and now don't want to know. Do you want to be a guinea pig to test some far-out theories of a behavioural scientist because that's what we are at present? The govt is relying on this behavioural science and odds to reduce the economic effect by putting measures in at the last moment holding out as much as they can - would you trust them to get it right as they have cocked it all up so far.

You really haven't thought this through OP. What about care homes ? You realise they are staffed right ? By people who go home to their families who wouldn't fit into your criteria? What's your plan ? To get them to isolate as well ? Do you have any idea whatsoever how many carers there are in this country and the manpower it takes to keep care and nursing homes and as other pp say homecare going ?

Unless you think bed bound elderly people should be left lying in their own excretions to develop horrific bed sores because you think you have it all figures out ?

Just a guess....do you assume carers dont have families ? Children etc?

Honestly I would be angry is this wasnt the most ridiculous attempt at appearing intelligent.

Eerie - surely a smaller population of imune-suppressed is easier to financially support than the whole country.

This isn't the OPs idea though, it's the upcoming UK policy.

Obviously it's supposition at this point - but it would require less resources to facilitate a (probably reduced level, realistically) of day to day care than it would to facilitate coronavirus care for this age group. None of these are going to be perfect as the strain is going to be high either way.

Those with more complex needs, I don't know enough about e.g. dialysis really. It may be that this is one of the uses for the hotel/hospitals they're planning so those who require that kind of care effectively become inpatients for the period? It's a guess though