Omg. The next step in the strategy. And if we all stick together it may work

[Bool]

Next step in UK strategy. Lock down all the over 70s (and other immunocompromised - kids / adults) for 4 months. Lock them down. Then make it illegal to close schools. That means we gain immunity to the virus as a population and keeps the beds open for the unusual cases that are not foreseen.

So I’m vulnerable, should I go and live with my elderly parents and lock down for 4 months leaving my 16 year old to run amok on his own?

Dictionary definition of genocide = the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group.

The two ethnic groups are the elderly and immunocompromised.

It is a deliberate policy with holes the size of houses in them to let people die. Boris already said be ready to say good bye to people before their time. It is cynixal and deliberate.

Ask yourselves this. Would this policy be ok if the group at risk who had to stay inside we age 30-40? Or 10-20? Or would we all do our bit for the population in that case?

sorry but then she will die

But even in the most vulnerable groups it's not a 100% death rate. It's about 14-15% I think. Not great odds, and I certainly hope my parents don't get it, but not a definite death sentence for all elderly people who might catch it, or even a majority of them.

My mum also helps the 85 year old across the street with stuff. Ridiculous to say they shouldn’t be allowed to hang out together.

And ffs stop with the 'herd immunity' bollocks.

This is a virus. We very well may not get immunity to it, at least not by just catching it. There are reports of reinfections. It is not a simple case of catch it once and you are good.

Catching it does not guarantee herd immunity. Vaccination does.

Remind me, how did that go with smallpox again?

Also @laniakea I'm interested to hear your counterargument to all the other points I made in that post.

Keeping schools open is sensible if parents have the option to keep their children at home if their circumstances allow for it. That way those with parents who have to work have somewhere to go, but class sizes will be reduced - less risk to children and teachers. I've heard that Norway and Russia have done this.

Keeping schools open with the same stringent attendance policies as usual is going to lead to lots of children deregistering!

Just say this goes ahead, how are we going to decide when the herd immunity of the younger generations is at an appropriate level, when we are now not testing everyone? We would need to be 100% sure that each individual has DEFINITE immunity before they can be added to the “herd” immune numbers and let loose on the older generation. If they aren’t going to test, are we going to be encouraged to actively mix a la chicken pox parties to ensure we all catch this damned thing before mixing with our elders?

In theory it makes sense but I fear that the elderly might be a harder population to control than children. I could get my teens to stay in with the lure of food, xbox and streaming sites. My 70 + Dad who is outdoorsy and likes his routines I'm less sure about.

I just need to be able to lock down with the kids and we could do that. If I can't do that, as a pp said, there's no point.

*Pluckedpencil

agree with that - also a good point re herd immunity, it does only work when populations are vaccinated - it's the vaccine that protects the vulnerable and provides the 'firewall', not other people becoming infected - that might boost THEIR immunity but it doesn't protect vulnerable people if they aren't vaccinated. And for now there is no vaccine :/

Plus, if other countries have second/third/fourth peaks because they have a different strategy to ours, all that will happen is that once tourists are allowed back into the U.K. mingling with our old folk, they are going to catch it from them.

I don't think the hyperbole bingo on here is appropriate or beneficial tbh.

Yes, there are legitimate concerns and questions about the government's response but to say that Boris Johnson is perpetrating a genocide is ridiculous scaremongering.

I come into the vulnerable/immunocompromised group and am also a single parent to three school age dcs. There's bugger all point putting me - and thousands of others like me with dcs - into quarantine if the schools stay open.
@airforsharon it’s the whole household that would be isolating not just the vulnerable/elderly person.

Can we PLEASE look at this at a population level. but life isn't lived at a population level and this is why these policies fail.

Older people who feel fit and well won't see their children lose their jobs and homes for the sake of them isolating for 4 months.
My friend is a single parent working front line NHS. If she loses her childcare she can't work. If she loses her job she can't pay the mortgage. If she can't pay the mortgage...

We have to lock our oldies down.
How??? Armed police arresting Doris and taking her home? Round then up in care homes?

@Bool

Daft.

Can't force all over 70s to stay in.

Sleeping how old is your friend who’s working?

Think the government are also missing the point that although the elderly are at risk of dying. I've read reports from Italian citizens saying don't be fooled it's not 'mild flu' and it does affect people under 60.

I agree not a s severely so yes I'm healthy and not worried about getting it BUT I wouldn't go to work if I was sick.

Aren't we expecting middle aged people to be off work sick? How many teachers can be off sick without schools shutting.

By limiting self isolation to the elderly all workplaces are likely to get it at the same time and places will be forced to close.

Am I wrong in thinking we'll all be sick with it (I am 33 and work in a school) yet the country will somehow keep going with a sick workforce?

Sorry when it's the right time I think Spanish/ Italian style lockdown is key

England is not testing people unless in intensive care, all data during and after this will be completely useless

People keep saying why aren’t the govt doing something, lock down! So many posts from many pp saying this.

Here it is but now it’s not possible.

I come into the vulnerable/ immunocompromised group and am also a single parent to three school age dcs...

it’s the whole household that would be isolating not just the vulnerable/elderly person.

But people won't sacrifice their kids education with exams etc coming up, or just them missing 4 months of school whilst their peers ask carry on. Will op get 4 months full pay for that time off? If she had a partner would they? How do we protect people's jobs when they're off for 4 months because of their partner or child?

It's not that they will DIE, it's the resources we will need to keep them alive

I imagine as a group they may need longer on ventilators etc

Be honest OP

You want to lock down “the elderly” and people like me (asthma and other conditions) so there’s room for you in hospital. It’s not because you’re worried we’ll die.

It does appear that the calmest people on these threads are the ones with high risk factors and experience of pneumonia. If I wrote a DNR, I’d include- no intubation and no tube feeding. The only reason I haven’t got to it is I don’t want my doctor taking it as a sign of terrible mental health.

I'm not against the lockdown for over 70s. I'm against the preventable hundred or so thousand deaths in the remaining population.

I’m pushing 70. My 2 year old granddaughter and her mother live with me. Should I lock myself in the shed for the foreseeable future?

This isn't actually happening so far though, is it?

The link says 'elderly to be quarantined...' but when you open it, the actual article says not to be but that the elderly could be quarantined. In any case, it's the opinion of a journalist, not official.