Raging at Boris Johnson's irresponsible response to Covid 19

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BJ said I must level with you, I must level with the British public: many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time

How fucking dare he. This kind of phrase belongs in a rousing speech where the public are asked to come together to do what we can to help prevent those deaths. e.g. not going to large events, doing social distancing.

Not one which says "business as usual".

There was a government adviser on the radio saying they've not banned sporting events because they're in the open and in sunlight.

What about those events undercover? Or after dark? If that's the case why aren't they banned?

They're saying they're acting on scientific advice, but they're adding a layer of interpretation which is about what they think is possible.

They lack faith in their ability to communicate what needs to be done to the population and they think we're all idiots who won't do it, basically. So they've taken the decision that they can't help people dying.

I don't know on what basis BJ and his government is making decisions, but it's not with our best interests at heart.

It's a "don't panic"'message from a government scared and disrespectful of the population, not leadership in a time of crisis.

Fucking raging.

The sheepish, unquestioning mentality of the Brits is quite extraordinary.

Listening to the country's most senior scientist and epidemiologist and not internet conspiracy theorists is extraordinary? Thank fuck I'm a Brit then.

I think it comes down to what you are trying to manage. Our CMO is trying to manage a small (because we are) country out of this with a small percentage of the world population with one infrastructure. In anything what he lacks is emotion - that is what missing from any of this the human element. It doesnt make his science wrong though

WHO are trying to manage a whole lot of different countries with different expectations and with feeling and postivity that it can still be contained

This.

Thank you @Dissimilitude. Very helpful.

@TedsFederationRep somebody who also watched the full 45 mins I am also not arrogant enough to think I know better than the experts.

@Quartz2208 I am sure that our Prime Minister with his Eton Scholarship and Oxford degree understands the press conference yesterday if I do.

@Sakura7 I am interested in whose advice you are going to follow if not our own scientist and medical officer.

The WHO still talks about containment but how can you contain a virus that has infiltrated to 5000-10000 people now. Remember their advice is not country specific.

Remember their advice is not country specific.

yes this is something I have been thinking about. I do wonder what level of detail the WHO have for each country. I would expect our CMO and experts to be looking at far more finer details specifically for our country, where the incidents are, how they expect it has been spread per incident, cultural behaviours etc. I would expect them to more accurately predict thy spread for OUR country rather than WHO just looking at the global incident rate as a whole. Maybe the WHO are getting into the finer details for each country. I'm not sure.

WhatKatyDidNot & Bool

Well maybe instead of taking a narrow view and listening only to people who share your nationality, look at the actual evidence of what other countries with outbreaks have done. Learn from South Korea and Japan, instead of actively choosing to become the next Italy.

Thank fuck my country takes it seriously and has shut down schools and banned mass gatherings. Our business minister has said we know we'll take an economic hit, but the health of our people is the number one priority. As it should be in any decent society.

There's a live briefing being broadcast from the management of our (Irish) health service, where they are stating that they are actively following China's successful practices, as per the clear advice of the WHO. This means thorough contact tracing, testing, and restriction of movement. Most European countries are doing the same. Why is Britian an outlier?

I agree with pps that each country has to take on board the known facts about Covid 19 and adapt it to its own situation. For example both Japan and Italy have an elderly population so lockdowns make sense (don't know about S Korea).

Anyway, lockdowns haven't been ruled out, they're just not considered appropriate yet.

And if everyone were to follow the 7 day self-isolation rule (which they obviously won't) that would help hugely.

And what is the point of testing everyone, it costs money that could be spent on actually treating people with the virus. In our area (Midlands) a testing station was set up outside a hospital and the local news said that only people sent by 111 should go for tests. Tossers were just turning up and demanding tests (probably the same people buying up hand sanitiser and flogging it online).

The proof will be in the pudding. Let's see where the UK is in 4 weeks time compared to other European countries who are taking decisive action. Based on the evidence to date I doubt it will be a good position, but we'll soon find out.

Yes Sak I agree to an extent but I also think this is largely in the hands of the public. I think the weakest link in the government's plan is trusting the public to do the right thing. I am always amazed when people on TV are interviewed and don't even know the name of the current prime minister, all the handwashing/self isolation stuff will just not be on their radar.

But equally I don't know how you address that level of ignorance. At least DD's school have taught all the kids about the virus and are supplying them with details of how to log on and have lessons/get homework if the school is closed for any reason.

Let's see where the UK is in 4 weeks time compared to other European countries who are taking decisive action.

No, let's see in a year's time. That's the bloody point!

No, let's see in a year's time. That's the bloody point!

Yes I agree.

somebody who also watched the full 45 mins

Thank you, Bool. I was beginning to think I'd imagined the whole press conference which was, in fact, a detailed public briefing - with, undoubtedly, more to follow as the situation changes and more precautions are required.

Even the fucking daily fail disagrees with him (in private!)

twitter.com/bunnyfuller/status/1238454350596509696?s=21

I don’t respect the chief science officer and I do not believe he is following “science”. What is this “science” that goes against WHO, that goes against what other government is doing? Why aren’t they publishing this “science”? Because they are looking at the same science every other government is looking at and making different interpretations and decisions. That’s not science. That’s politics.

‘I do not like what this expert has said, and therefore he is not an expert.’ What a good example of the scourge of the last decade.

The real question that no one knows the answer to is what is the right balance between epidemiological science and behavioural science - that’s what countries are making judgement calls on, and the behavioural responses of their citizens will be different in different places. No one knows the answer yet - is it the UK, with a staged response, or the Italian lockdown where the school shutdown has meant full playgrounds and large groups of children congregating in each other’s homes - undermining the point of the schools closing?

We simply don’t know. Scientists disagree. Armchair experts (with their previous expertise in international trade and constitutional law) may want to reflect on where their own expertise lies and what they’re adding to the debate.

@JassyRadlett - absolutely correct.

I also think people who are upset over the lack of school closure are not really considering how long the school closure would need to be (i.e. months).

People are also incorrectly thinking that the lockdown has "solved" the problem in places like Wuhan. What the CSO / CMO are saying implies they strongly believe that the virus will rebound when such lockdowns are relaxed.

The risk to the UK of an early lockdown is that we prevent the virus circulating, then are hit twice as hard in the winter, once the second wave arrives and none of our population has immunity.

The risk to the UK of an early lockdown is that we prevent the virus circulating, then are hit twice as hard in the winter, once the second wave arrives and none of our population has immunity.

And with the risk that it mutates. With the benefit of hindsight, more people getting Spanish flu in the first wave would have probably been a very good thing.

Jassy, what a very sensible post!

Yes and only time will tell if they have made the right decision but having made it I hope they have the guts now to see it through because the worse thing to do is to change your mind

Astute post, Jassy. 👍🏻

😊 I was half-expecting a total flaming! (It may yet come...)

People are also incorrectly thinking that the lockdown has "solved" the problem in places like Wuhan. What the CSO / CMO are saying implies they strongly believe that the virus will rebound when such lockdowns are relaxed.

That's a theory, it's not a given. We simply don't know.

However, what we do know is that taking action slows down the spread of the disease and buys time. That additional time is hugely important, not only in terms of health service planning but also in order to find a treatment. An existing antiviral drug is already being tested against covid 19 and is showing positive results. There is a real possibility that an effective drug could be available in a matter of months, in which case the decision to delay the spread will be proven to be the sensible one.

For whatever reason, the advice the UK govt is acting on is contrary to that of most other countries, and the WHO. Is it possible they're right and everyone else is wrong? Maybe. Is it likely? Probably not. It's sensible to ask these questions though.

However, what we do know is that taking action slows down the spread of the disease and buys time.

We don’t even know that yet - not over a longer period. We don’t know what happens when lockdown ends, or whether slow ramp up of delay measures (UK) or fast (many other places) have a better long-term effect.

I’m no fan of this government - its crackers policies and ideologies have cost me a career I loved. But I’m trying not to let that blind me to reality.

We don’t even know that yet - not over a longer period.

Hence my second point. It's about planning rather than being overwhelmed too early, and about allowing time to find treatment. The 'second wave' can be managed if we have an effective antiviral by then.

You can't rely on anti viral / immunisations to manage the second wave. What if that takes 6 months to develop? 12 months? Keep everyone in lockdown all that time?

From what I have read there will not be a vaccine available on the market before next year.
Much as I dislike this Government, I do feel that they are behaving thoughtfully and correctly at this stage.
We are in this for the long haul.