Gobsmacked by UK response

[Aspoonfullofjam]

Stay at home for one week if you’ve a cold (even though all evidence is that incubation is two weeks)

People over 70 don’t go on cruises.

WHAT!!!

134 new cases in a day and no action. 13 EU countries have closed all schools, another 11 partial closures but apparently no action needed in Uk.

Jesus.

The thing is with scientific evidence in Coronavirus is that it's different depending on which way you want to take action. The UK are following experts advising a herd immunity plan, other countries are following scientific guidance on attempting to limit it. As starkly put as many loved ones will die vs together we can save many lives by the respective leaders of UK and ROI.

France, Spain and Italy are much further along the epidemic trajectory than the UK and they are introducing the measures at a stage much worse than the UK is now.

When we are at a similar point we will probably have similar measures.

I did try to think of an name of a government dept that would abbreviated to clitoris

It's the Dept for Coastal and Littoral Research

... I see other people are thinking it's starting to sound like that Red Dwarf episode. The delay in the "delay" phase also felt a bit like "are you sure you want to step up to red alert - it means changing the lightbulb" as well.

Secondary schools could close with no requirement for parents to take off work - they are old enough to look after themselves in the main.

We are quite literally the only country taking this approach. 26 countries have closed schools and all we are doing is warning the over 70's not to go on a cruise?

Have a look at what happened with Denver Colorado in 1918 when they lifted restrictions too early and got a second bigger infection spike. It seems you either need a long draconian lockdown or a later targeted one.

People are waiting to see what happens in China when the restrictions are eased.

The UK are following experts advising a herd immunity plan

Is there any evidence for herd immunity?

Secondary schools could close with no requirement for parents to take off work - they are old enough to look after themselves in the main.

Every time the local secondary schools are shut here (for inset days or broken boiler type days), we have swarms of teenagers everywhere roaming in packs. I suppose they want to avoid that if they could be infectious.

We are literally doing the opposite of what WHO and ECMA advise:

Social distancing measures should be implemented early in order to mitigate the impact of the epidemic and to delay the epidemic peak. Such measures should include: the immediate isolation of symptomatic persons, the suspension of mass gatherings, taking into consideration the size of the event, the density of participants and if the event is in a confined indoor environment; social distancing measures at workplaces (for example teleworking, suspension of meetings, cancellation of non-essential travel); measures in and closure of schools

Every healthcare facility should initiate training for all staff and those who may be required for healthcare provision during surge capacity. Countries should identify healthcare units that can be designated to care for COVID-19 cases.

National surveillance systems should initially aim at rapidly detecting cases and assessing community transmission. As the epidemic progresses, surveillance should monitor the intensity, geographical spread and the impact of the epidemic on the population and healthcare systems and assess the effectiveness of measures in place.

France, Spain and Italy are much further along the epidemic trajectory than the UK and they are introducing the measures at a stage much worse than the UK is now.

When we are at a similar point we will probably have similar measures.

But are you thinking that Italy has handled this really well and we should follow their lead? Or are you thinking that the situation in Italy is really bad and we need to act now to avoid a similar situation in the UK?

Italy should have imposed a countrywide lockdown rather than regional because people were travelling out of the lockdown area spreading it to places without a lockdown.

How long can a lockdown feasibly last. Denver in 1918 shows the danger of lifting restrictions too early.

Have a look at what happened with Denver Colorado in 1918 when they lifted restrictions too early and got a second bigger infection spike.

How about Philadelphia vs St Louis?

Philadelphia didn’t lock down and failed to cancel a huge parade (perhaps they had access to that special British science for no transmission of respiratory diseases outdoors) and experienced a huge peak in fatal cases.

St Louis imposed controls and restrictions and avoided the initial peak. When they relaxed controls, there was indeed a second peak - so aha! Bozo was right!!! Except, because everything had been spread out into a long low peak of cases, this is estimated to have kept the fatality rate to less than half of Philly’s.

IIRC Denver’s second peak of infection was larger than the first.

It’s a difficult judgement call. Can we impose 153 days of restrictions (I think that was the St Louis figure)? China has had 40 days and people are really struggling.

Some teenagers would roam about. Some parents do little to supervise their kids. But most parents do supervise their teenagers and what they do.

Lots of the parents would be at work, they wouldn’t be able to take weeks or months off work to babysit teenagers.

Better for them to roam in the open air, than cough over each other in a stuffy classroom, I’d have thought. The government thinks large crowds in the open air are fine and dandy.

Surely the final arbiter is what other countries officially think of UK measures ? If they're confident they're up to scratch, no problem. If they think the UK measures aren't good enough we might start to see countries banning travel from the UK in the same way the US has banned all travel from Schengen.

They are wanting to get rid of the old and the weak. That way they don't need to pay a pittance in pensions and benefits. It's scary.

Cancelling mass gatherings might put zero hours contract workers at risk of losing their jobs, but the government should look into supporting them financially (I thought the government has set aside a large amount of money to combat the disease), rather than risking them catching the virus while working at large events. You might think infections don't spread in outdoor settings, but imagine an infected football fan who uses the stadium toilet, and everyone else follows thereafter.....
If people have seen how infected people fall dead on the streets in Wuhan, or how infected people are left on hospital corridors because there are not enough beds, or how healthcare professionals in other countries had no time to deal with dead bodies in hospitals because they are overwhelmed, then people would worry less about not having enough money, no football to watch, being bored or having to entertain their kids at home. Drastic measures are needed now to prevent (not delay) all those catastrosphic health consequences.

Nobody cared about zero hours workers during foot and mouth. But of course foot and mouth meant some wealthier farmers lost a lot of money. It is about money.

@DGRossetti Scandi here, I have just seen our media comment on the uk approach and especially Jeremy hunt calling for more action.

I really hope my country will restrict uk travel (both ways) why should we take measures, isolate etc. if any uk person coming here is potentially contagious.

@BlackCatSleeping as others have said, the difference is explained by the fact Scientists here are advocating for a different approach hence the differing advice from the govt here vs other other countries. It's similar to the chicken pox vaccination.

The NHS site states it isn't offered as a routine vaccination and explains the reasons very clearly. Other countries follow a different route entirely. My American cousin are horrified that my DC have had CP.

My point is that when it comes to health matters we are continually told "we must trust the scientific approach, it's based on data and facts". And yet there are sometimes different versions of that approach and interpretations of the data so which one do we trust? I really don't know if the U.K. is wrong at the moment and all other countries correct or vice versa.

All Premier League and EFL matches have been suspended until 3rd April at earliest.

we must trust the scientific approach, it's based on data and facts

I love scientific data and facts, me. I love them so much, I’d like to see them, and compare them to other scientific data and facts, to understand the differences in approach.

It's complete lunacy. I have flu symptoms, I had a temperature cor just over 2 weeks and a dry cough. The temperature has gone but my cough has got much worse, with mucus buildup up in my throat which I can't get rid of. A doctor will be calling me back today. (I almost hope it is COVID19-19, I'd hate to think I could get something worse! They wouldn't test me because I didn't fit in their neat categories.)

Anyway, I self isolate whilst my DDs go to school and my DH goes to work in the city centre, potentially infecting loads of other people. What is the point of that?? (Of course it might be another virus, but as no one has tested me, there's no way of knowing. And there are so many people in my position.

What is Germany doing that others aren't only 2 deaths out of 2000+ casualties

@Loopy10 - thank you for your input, you write great sense. You're saying what I've been trying to express, but badly, for a while.