TOTAL AND UTTER MADNESS

[Bottletopsx]

I am totally amazed at the attitude of our Government! Thousands of Spanish football fans have travelled from coronavirus-hit Madrid to the UK for a football game in Liverpool tonight. Madrid has parts on lockdown and are not allowed to gather on mass there, yet they can fly here!!
Total madness!
All true here is the link to the Liverpool Echo
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-mps-gary-lineker-question-17905004

If tonight’s match had been played behind closed doors it would have prevented 3000 fans from the worst affected area of Spain attending.

Yes local fans would have still crowded in pubs but that happens on most match days as the tickets are not easy to get.

If they can take precautions with the Man City match why not this one?

truth is that there is as yet little evidence that lockdown has any more than a temporary impact.

Surely a temporary impact is precisely what we need to give the NHS a chance to get organised? Flatten the curve to prevent all those cases of fibrosis of the lungs hitting the hospitals at once. I have seen this explained very well on German television by Angela Merkel and on Swedish social media by a medic. Makes sense to me.

They want to shut the schools the week before Easter to get the maximum benefit of school closures with the least impact, but they need the figures to be high enough by that last week so allowing big groups to continue will mean the timing will fall right.

Possibly- or possibly not. Desperately searching for some logic behind the madness.

I also believe that the herding effect, strengthening our immunity to the new virus in winters to come, as I've seen suggested elsewhere, is likely true and quite clever.

It is only clever if you put the economy before people's lives. So you let the virus rip through the population killing people. Meaning those left will be the stronger ones in terms of their immune system. It is also as WHO pointed out, deeply immoral.

I am also sick to the back teeth of how some posters keep making out that if you criticise what Boris is doing, it is because you are anti Tories. A lot of Tories, including my former MP would I am sure be horrified at this strategy. It is simply about name calling rather than engaging with the points being made.

And yes holding this match is madness. But it will allow the virus to spread.

@SusieOwl4 "If you cancelled a big open air football match what do you think would happen ? Everyone would squeeze into pubs to watch it on the big screens . The government can not stop the virus ."

Actually, don't you think a lot of people might stop and think 'gosh, this must really be serious, since the government has stopped large gatherings. I'll watch at home.'

Personally I would think twice. It would send a really strong message about the dangers of how coronavirus spreads and what we can do to avoid it.

@alloutoffucks That is why I think it is really good that Rory Stewart has spoken out strongly.

truth is that there is as yet little evidence that lockdown has any more than a temporary impact. any impact is vital to be quite honest at this stage, if there are better ideas to reduce impact, then we should also be doing these. Lockdown can be incremental. Ask any staff in any ICU ward and they will agree I imagine!

I haven’t seen any plan using herd immunity though? This is not a straightforward option, it is a new virus, we don’t make whether it might mutate or how long it will be with us for. We certainly can not afford for it to spread freely, that is very clear.

@motherofdragonite Yes it is good he has spoken out. Don't know if it will make any difference.

The virus has already mutated once. But WHO are clear that countries should be going for eradication.

Following the money instead of the science, what do you expect?
We are on our own and it's the survival of the fittest.
That may seem OTT to younger fitter people who may not suffer much more than flu symptoms. But many people, some in their 30's/40's will need ICU as well.
Do what is right for you and yours.

Even America has banned flights from Spain. Trump is doing more than Boris.

@VenusTiger bollocks to the “herding effect”. There will be a vaccine in winters to come so no need to force yourself to be ill now to avoid it later on.

Our government seems to be willfully ignoring the advice of the WHO and of countries who are ahead of us like Italy.

Stop believing Suzy from Grimsby and take advice of the experts.

Like our health minister, who has it, you mean? The one who said this will peak in 2 weeks?

I think I have more faith in Suzy from Grimsby.

The Times is reporting that the plan for English football is to continue to play all matches in empty stadiums, stream everything online, and ban people from watching in pubs.

Actually, don't you think a lot of people might stop and think 'gosh, this must really be serious, since the government has stopped large gatherings. I'll watch at home.'

In Paris last night with the PSG-BVB game played behind closed doors, tens of thousands of PSG supporters gathered outside the stadium during the match despite there being no big screens to watch it on. All milling about in close proximity to each other, and hugging during goal celebrations etc

twitter.com/le_Parisien_PSG/status/1237840598435950598

twitter.com/le_Parisien_PSG/status/1237832149757235200

*Mind you no worse than my local college still being open even though a confirmed case made the local news. Not even a deep clean.

This is going to be one hell of a mess.*

At the start of all this, they were bussing people from planes from Wuhan straight into quarantine. A couple of weeks later, you've got hundreds of teachers and school children coming back from skiing trips in areas they knew were infected, and being allowed to go straight back to school. Italy is in shutdown. You're meant to self isolate if you come back from there, but no one's following it up. They tried to stop it for all of 5 minutes, but it's looking like too much bother now.

Can I just point out that the reason the WHO is so insistent that the government act now is because every transmission of the virus makes mutation more likely.

They are very worried that it will mutate to a more deadly strain or that someone who already has bird flu will catch corona and we will have corona x bird flu and then will actually be in the shit.

He was useless during the floods and now useless during this pandemic.

What did you want him to do during the floods? Surely investing in better defences is much better than him turning up to say to people oh sorry you've lost your homes and then return to London?

He doesn't make decisions in isolation. I do think travel should be heavily restricted, I can't believe there's people still in Italy on holiday that are having to be told to cut it short and leave. Unfortunately people's stupidity and selfishness needs some restricting, harsh measures are the only way. It's not just Boris sat by himself wondering what to do though.

@Butterwhy It is unfair to blame people for being stupid when until a few days ago all the messages from Government were - this is like a mild cold for most people, wash your hands. I can understand why someone healthy who does not follow the news much would think - oh well if I get a mild like cold on holiday, no big deal.
You can't tell people there is nothing to worry about, then call them stupid when they believe you.

I on the otherhand don't believe what the Government has been saying all along, so would have never went on holiday abroad at the moment.

Butterywhy

PMs are supposed to lead, PMs have always gone to disaster zones in the country.
BJ didn't because he was scared of the reaction he'd get after his party has underfunded and dragged their feet on flood prevention and have allowed building on flood plains.

BJ only a few days ago was telling us all it's ok to shake hands, he also said that he is minded to agree to "take it on the chin" so this explains his govt's complete lack of action on CV19... we have tested 35k people, Korea is in the 100s of 1000s, SK was setting up labs as soon as this virus started coming their way, we have just started planning for extra labs this week.
Footie, rugby, horse racing etc should have just been banned, not played behind closed doors.

Can't even announce decent sick pay levels in yesterdays budget, who the F can live on £94 a week? if you can even get it, UC will take weeks to apply for. on the other hand, the hated federal state bullying EU avg is £230 :)

Johnson and his govt are totally incompetent and have learned nothing from history and previous pandemics.

The Government are putting the economy first. This is not incompetence I think, but deliberate policy. So keep talking about decisive action, but keep saying it is not the right time to do anything.

From the editor of The Lancet

And look what the editor of The Lancet retweeted when Trump moved to ban flights from China end of Jan/Feb:

Jennifer Nuzzo, DrPH
"Focus on case finding and isolation. Identify and monitor contacts. Do not take non-evidence-based actions that will exacerbate social, economic tolls of this epidemic. Large-scale quarantines, closing borders, trade restrictions likely to cause more harm than good."

30 JAN "The World Health Organization, which declared the outbreak a global health emergency this week, has recommended against any travel or trade restrictions in response to the outbreak. Member countries, however, do not have to comply with that guidance."

“Although travel restrictions may intuitively seem like the right thing to do, this is not something that WHO usually recommends,” said Tarik Jašarević, a WHO spokesperson.“This is because of the social disruption they cause and the intensive use of resources required,” he added."

"Experts said travel bans could lead to a slew of downstream effects and risk complicating the public health response."

"Travel and trade restrictions can lead to dire economic consequences for countries involved, creating a disincentive for them to quickly disclose potential outbreaks to the WHO or other nations.They can hinder the sharing of information, make it harder to track cases and their contacts, and disrupt the medical supply chain, potentially fueling shortages of drugs and medical supplies in the areas hit hardest by the outbreak."

www.statnews.com/2020/01/31/as-far-right-calls-for-china-travel-ban-health-experts-warn-coronavirus-response-would-suffer/

If feel like there is some other agenda going on. I don't know what it is but the jump from putting people in isolation in the Wirral, to now not bothering to deep clean schools where someone has tested positive is too odd.
Something is afoot.

@Clavinova Nobody is saying Trump is necessarily doing the right things. But we are doing nothing.
Even minimal things like wfh are not being encouraged, or deep clean of a school after a confirmed case.
It is clear the strategy is for people to get the virus, but save the economy.