Worried about coronavirus thread 22

[ofwarren]

@usernameishistory is busy and asked me to start a new thread.

Please see post 21 for more information about coronavirus.

[Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

I will be logging off soon as working from home. Not to try and pull a sickie as someone alleged on the thread, but to try and stop my kids being without a mum.
I am pulling them out of school at the end of this week.
I only realised yesterday that the Government approach is for most to get it, not to try and contain it like every other country and like WHO advise, and to prioritise the economy.

I am not pulling the kids out of school for their sake but mine. I know if they get it, as they are healthy, they should be fine. But I don't want them to give it to me. DP has to go to work, but will be scrupulous with hygiene. The teenagers with all the will in the world, won't. I know it is not a fool proof plan. I know the teenagers could still get it as could DP. But cutting down their amount of contacts reduces my risk.

Just a week ago I thought people pulling their kids out of school were ridiculously over reacting. I don't now.

What is the WHO advice btw? I keep seeing it mentioned on here that the UK is not following that advice but what have the specifically said to do that we are not doing?

I did see this from yesterday

If countries detect, test, treat, isolate, trace, and mobilize their people in the response, those with a handful of cases can prevent those cases becoming clusters, and those clusters becoming community transmission.

I think we need to test more people, but we are testing more that a lot of countries. But this is what we are doing?

GMB's Dr Hilary Jones says UK is on 'same trajectory as Italy' with 827 coronavirus deaths so far t.co/yzeIIwhhnV
Daily Mail

I would be very surprised if PHE haven't modelled all the possible scenarios with all the variables and know the precise times to bring in certain measures for maximum effect at minimum cost to life.

This is an unusual (to put it mildly!) situation, requiring in some cases desperate measures. No health service in the world could possibly have enough intensive care beds on tap ready and waiting for the numbers of people likely to need them. Therefore decisions will have to be made as to who is a priority case.

Having spent a quite long spell recently in hospital, the vast majority of patients were not only elderly, but very elderly and more often than not with dementia. In normal times resources and manpower can be spent on anyone, but if there is a crisis such as the one we are facing then it seems immoral to treat someone ill and elderly ahead of an otherwise healthy 25-year-old.

The reason for locking down care homes is to protect hospitals from influxes of elderly people with poor prognoses. Mil was in a nursing home and constantly being taken to hospital, in spite of having very advanced dementia and, I would say, no quality of life. A DNR does not apply for "treatable" diseases such as viruses.

This feels like some awful nightmare. Why isn't the UK govt doing more? I just can't understand it. What is it going to take for them to start doing something about large crowds and WFH??? We are like lambs to the slaughter in their hands. Even one of the WHO members has just said very clearly on GMB that we should be discouraging large crowds now. Why are our govt not listening? I have a mother with lung disease - she will die! I don't think they will be introducing anything new today. It will just be them telling us we've moved to the next stage and keep washing your hands.

Excuse my ignorance, but Would the flu vaccine offer any protection or reduction in severity to children?

For context, a million deaths is approximately the number of British military people who died in the first and second world wars put together

That was against the background of a much smaller population though - around 40 million? Not sure what it was in WW1.

@random18 The WHO recommend aggressive action. Testing and contact tracing, social distancing - so banning events, wfh, real isolating of cases.
I know that those testing on PHE are overwhelmed with the work and working extra hours. We may be doing all we can with this. But we are not doing enough. WHO have clearly said testing needs to be more widespread.

@Greenbutterlfy566 The advice is to make sure all your vaccinations are up to date.

Would the flu vaccine offer any protection or reduction in severity to children?

not directly, but by vaccinating against a rampant and sometimes serious disease like the flu could reduce the strain on the health services.
so it's worth considering getting the vaccine.

@Greenbutterlfy566 if anyone has another virus or illness at the same time then it follows it would be worse with Covid. But children will be mild anyway. It’s more that they won’t get the flu and pass it on to someone more vulnerable with the flu jab.

In normal times resources and manpower can be spent on anyone, but if there is a crisis such as the one we are facing then it seems immoral to treat someone ill and elderly ahead of an otherwise healthy 25-year-old

I certainly think that it would have been pointless treating my father during the last six months of his life. He was bed-bound and had Parkinsons. His brain was ok but he had no quality of life. If someone is just waiting to die, it makes sense to make them comfortable but there's no point trying to bring them back from a serious illness. I know some people just can't bear the thought of their loved ones dying, but I think when someone is very elderly (my father was 93 when he died) and has lost their quality of life, it's more cruel to keep them alive.

@boon The UK Government have said quite clearly that they want most people to get the virus. They are not attempting to eradicate it, just slow its transmission.
We have less ICU beds per head per population than most countries. Often a lot less. Yes any health service will suffer under this pandemic, but we are less prepared than most.

DD's uni has told the students they are shutting for the last three weeks of semester this morning, I'm assuming (rightly or wrongly) that it's likely schools will be doing something similar?

@Greenbutterlfy566 not at all, but it is a good idea to have all available vaccinations because it will reduce the load on the NHS from all the other illnesses like flu.

@cologne4711 No one would argue against that. That will not be what we are talking about. We will be talking about people who could have survived not getting an ICU bed because none are available.

cologne4711 worldometer

Thanks Freezing1

Thank you both. my child cannot have the nasal spray so I was going to get the injection but the doctor said it doesn't work as well on children.

Take care folks, see you at lunch time. Look after yourself, because it is clear no one else will.

Neurotrashwarrior thank goodness you’ve got your’husband who’s good at maths’ to explain it all to you. Unfortunately my husband ‘who’s also good at maths’ thinks we’ve left it far too late!
Which husband to believe??
Fortunately I’ve done my own research (as I’m also good at maths and science) and therefore social distancing.

Also, have just had the NHS text with the link to the self isolation guidelines. Who on earth has plastic disposable aprons hanging about? Or disposable gloves?
I work in an industry where we are supposed to wear face protection and disposable gloves at all times but due to panic buyers our work has been halted as we can't get basic PPE.

The govt should order that for as long as schools are open,

• there must be organised handwashing when they arrive, before they eat and before they go home

and state that this is mandatory even if the lack of facilities means dropping 3 lessons per day for this

As for some schools not even having soap ... how fucking stupid and irresponsible can schools be

• And ban all school trip anywhere, even within the UK

Re flu vaccine - I would have thought that most children should have had this anyway?