Worried about coronavirus thread 22

[ofwarren]

@usernameishistory is busy and asked me to start a new thread.

Please see post 21 for more information about coronavirus.

[Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

State of emergency due to coronavirus:

-Washington D.C.
-New York
-Arizona
-Ohio
-Illinois
-Michigan
-Colorado
-New Jersey
-Massachusetts
-Pennsylvania
-Oregon
-Iowa
-Utah
-Kentucky
-Rhode Island
-North Carolina
-New Mexico
-Indiana
-Maryland
-California
-Florida
-Washington

There are a whole range of other measures that we should be taking,
but closing schools is the nuclear option, the absolute last resort imo

Think of the effect on the health service and all the other essential public services as parents stay home.
The NHS would be hammered.
It's not just the economy

Sunshine I can see endless coffins, roads shut to get all the burials done, hospitals collapsed and Chris telling us we are at contain phase, ie contain the population in coffins in the earth whilst still washing hands and Boris standing down to live a quiet life in the countryside with Carrie.

Big choc, so Italian docs don't have dc?. Those on the front line don't have families?

Pediatrician do you think asthmatic children are at risk, or children in general ? Same CFR as 20- 30 y o if 10+ but Italian doctor comments none in ICU

facingtheabess All school trips should be cancelled, including within the UK

As for the rest, my observations from MN is that the impulse to close schools comes from terrified parents, which is totally understandable,

but public health officials must consider the effect on the NHS of parents staying home
of care workers staying home and the elderly in homes not receiving care

The government must look at the emergency services and public services as a whole,
as well as the economy
A real economic crash, a depression, would kill many too

*SkyBluePink
*
Some asked the Director Tedros about authority last Monday I think. He said they have no authority to tell other countries what to do, but they strongly advise and will repeatedly criticise directly to the governments who aren't doing proper action.

Generally WHO is a relation of the UN, and countries have signed up to various programmes to help disease eradication or er, world health.

I think that this crisis will really show the strengths and weaknesses of our society and how it's structured.

Service economy.
Capitalist society, dependant on people spending money
Global society
Just in time supply chains
The concerns of zero hours contracts and the gig economy
The whole family needing to work to survive - and the implications for school and childcare
Our social care system

Hence why imo the govt should immediately allow parents to keep their kids at home if they wish
partly to reduce this clamour for schools to close

I think we are heading for a real economic crash anyway at this point.

I have been looking at the data regarding children's infection rates. This article is reviewing a recent study which suggests children catch it at the same rate as adults, but just don't get very unwell with it. www.wired.com/story/kids-can-get-covid-19-they-just-dont-get-that-sick/

Hardly peer reviewed, though... I am going to have a look at the actual study if I can track it down.

El Salvador declares national quarantine, bans the entry of foreigners and closes all schools
BNO NEWSROOM

As far as I know, they have no cases?

I don't understand why those who can keep kids home now aren't allowed to? It would make schools less crowded, which would help everyone a bit. Allow people to home school as an exceptional circumstance due to coronavirus without losing school place. That way, those that can, will and the schools will be emptier and transmission less likely in less crowded schools. Space matters with this, it seems.

Arsenal have postponed their Premier League match against Manchester City and have placed some players under isolation over #coronavirus risk t.co/kHJDfdnJ19 t.co/69lPIFLF2W
Reuters

I wander if numbers of infected have jumped and that's why a change in tactic coming? Meeting is before official figures are released, I think they know something we yet don't and the two will be released together

That’s the only thing I can think of that would explain the complete U-turn since 7pm.

Maybe I am being selfish as I wfh and elderly parents / in laws far away.

But I really do think it's the elderly who we should isolate.

And we pay full sick pay to those still working who have underlying health conditions. Stop non attendance at school being an issue and committing to ensuring the kids ge the support to catch up.
Hopefully we can do it in a nice way that some already lonely people are not made lonlier.

But if we let the young and the healthy get the virus hopefully we can have minor effects but still keep the economy going.

But if it still spreads albeit a bit more slowly- what is the benefit of shutting schools.

When you have countries like Indonesia, iran, Egypt where it is debatable that they are testing sufficiently- will it not just come back again.

I will admit- my mental health would suffer from a prolonged school holiday. I can deal with that - bit I would want it to work and I have my doubts

The issue with closing schools is not to protect children per se, but a measure to keep people at home and drastically reduce contact with other people. Therefore it is most effective in conjunction with other measures eg shops closed, cinemas closed, offices closed etc. These measures have huge economic consequences.
My dd’s school in China has been shut for over 6 weeks and when it reopens there will be staggered start which may also take several weeks.

They do have the option of exceptional contact tracing and case control, as Singapore has done, with no widespread closures of schools. However you need to be really good at cases, and monitor inward flight passengers etc - but it has worked there so far.

What I don’t feel comfortable is watching looser controls on case tracing, monitoring, and not even soft guidance on social distancing. There is no positives that I can see from delaying this and waiting for numbers to go up. Why? I would like transparency of strategy and so say the WHO too! They want countries to come clean about what strategies they are using!

'' WHO calls for urgent and aggressive actions ''

Boris responds, and shows how to take hand-washing to the next step.

First phase hand washing was to happy birthday and featured 'fairly' vigorous rubbing. Second, urgent phase hand-washing featured the PM rubbing his hands in an aggressive manner whilst singing, God save our queen. The pm said another cobra meeting would be scheduled for the following day. Speculation in Westminster, hand-washing will be upped to 'VIOLENT, whilst singing, land of hope and glory.

Unless the govt announces it is going to pay full salary, not SSP to parents who would lose money if they don't work
and somehow pay their full income to self-employed and micro-businesses

.... how will some parents afford to stay home ?

More likely, even very young kids will just be locked up in an empty house

Land of soap and mournjng

@ShanghaiDiva yes social distancing
The main reason is not to stop us from getting it, but stopping us from passing it on! We literally become stops or barriers.

I think all our local schools have asked parents to let them know if they would struggle with internet access should home learning be required and checked everyone has login details etc but we have some schools saying they WILL be shutting and others saying they WON'T be shutting. no differences in type of school, just what they have communicated.

We are almost certainly going to have a global recession, whatever we do

However, a Depression would be far worse

It feels as though our government are being stubborn all over again - same as with Brexit. They seem to think the UK is different, it can make it's own rules - it's somehow special and exempt.

A very public school attitude maybe? An attitude of privilege? What is it? We haven't always been like this have we? It's all very weird.