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Worried about coronavirus thread 22

999 replies

ofwarren · 11/03/2020 19:40

@usernameishistory is busy and asked me to start a new thread.

Please see post 21 for more information about coronavirus.

[Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

OP posts:
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18
RunningAwaywiththeCircus · 11/03/2020 21:45

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

EducatingArti · 11/03/2020 21:45

MangePasTesOnglesVilain
That research was with flu though which has a different profile.
People with ordinary flu can pass on for longer whilst still asymptomatic and it affects children differently to Covid19.

Michelleoftheresistance · 11/03/2020 21:46

Ontop if you go to youtube and search for WHO live there's today's … what would you call it? Presentation? They go through their major concerns about lack of properly thorough testing and not nearly enough testing in a number of countries there.

The point of closing schools would be now, to nip this in the bud. To find and stamp out the virus instead of letting it spread, which is what the WHO are urging. To close the schools when all hell's broken loose and half the country has it will achieve bugger all, it'll be pointless by then. They don't intend to do anything to prevent the spread, the testing is half hearted at best and they're not testing anything like enough people. They're not tracing contacts, people are wandering off planes and boats unchecked and vanishing into the populace.

MP Bell Ribeiro-Addy:

"Keeping Parliament functioning as normal with public visiting is simply irresponsible. I’m concerned that we’re potentially spreading the virus.

My biomedical training tells me that a number of members in this House probably already have the virus. And I’m genuinely concerned about older members of this House and older members in our constituencies and those with underlying health conditions."

Lots of shaking heads, laughter, the minister said he was glad parliament was staying open and didn't respond to any other point at all. Laughter. About worrying over people with underlying health conditions among their own colleagues.

Bumblesbumbles · 11/03/2020 21:46

@BloomedAgain thanks for the info. Would love to see the data but you are right about the clusters.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 11/03/2020 21:46

I don’t think the UK is doing enough however are doing the best they can with the resources they have and the information/guidance given.

We have not long received a text message from out trust, so I do think action is being taken.

What I don’t believe is that people with symptoms are being turned away simply because they haven’t been directly in contract with known contagious person/country is the correct guidance to be following.

Sunshinegirl82 · 11/03/2020 21:46

In the select committee interview Chris Whitty acknowledges that school closures can be effective for flu but this is not flu and he considered that the evidence does not support the effectiveness of school closures for a virus of this type.

Having said that he doesn't rule it out entirely and suggests it firms part of a number of measures that it might be appropriate to take at some point.

Furfockssake · 11/03/2020 21:46

Government have to let the infection take hold because they can only do social distancing measures once - because its going to have a horrendous affect on the economy. So no point them going to early as the virus would die out quickly, only to come back a month later. They need to make sure a lot of people actually do get it to create herd immunity which essentially means it won't come back on the same scale. That is why they are waiting to take measures.

But that doesn't mean they are saying that it is 'safe' to carry on doing what we normally do, as it isn't. The risk is low but increasing exponentially. If you want to make a change to keep yourself safe, don't wait for the Government to tell you - they are not playing the same numbers game as you are.

FacingtheAbess · 11/03/2020 21:47

Quartz, china is slowly getting back to normal.

Your article says closing schools before there is a case is the most powerful measure there is because not only do dc stop mixing, so do teaches, cleaners, admin staff,parents.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 11/03/2020 21:47

Forgot to post pic

Worried about coronavirus thread 22
Langbannedforsafeguardingkids · 11/03/2020 21:48

In a statement released by the vice president Mike Pence’s office, the task force said its recommendations included workplaces encouraging telework and expanding sick leave policies, and community and faith-based organisations cancelling gatherings “of any size”, Reuters reports.

From the Guardian coronavirus live update page. So EVEN TRUMP'S ADMINISTRATION is saying STOP big GATHERINGS!!!

FFS British government. Stop being so fucking useless. All this 'if people don't go to the match, they'll go to the pub" no they fucking won't not if you tell them it's a public health emergency and they shouldn't. We're not fucking toddlers. If Italians can do it so can we. Do they really think all British people are this feckless?

Fucking nudge theory, NUDGE THEORY! FOR AN EPIDEMIC! I am incensed. I think those who lose family members (and if this nonsense with the government continues it will be in larger numbers than the rest of the world I am sure) should sue the government for this afterwards and perhaps even aim for criminal trials. We are not doing anything close to the preparation of the rest of the world. Why am I living here?.

Sorry for all the fucks, at least I give a few - unlike BoJo.

TackyTriceratops · 11/03/2020 21:49

From that article:

Proactive school closuresclosing schools before there’s a case therehave been shown to be one of the most powerful nonpharmaceutical interventions that we can deploy. Proactive school closures work like reactive school closures not just because they get the children, the little vectors, removed from circulation. It’s not just about keeping the kids safe. It’s keeping the whole community safe. When you close the schools, you reduce the mixing of the adults—parents dropping off at the school, the teachers being present. When you close the schools, you effectively require the parents to stay home.
There was a wonderful paper published that analyzed data regarding the Spanish flu in 19188*, examining proactive versus reactive school closures. When did [regional] authorities close the schools relative to when the epidemic was spiking? What they found was that proactive school closing saved substantial numbers of lives. St. Louis closed the schools about a day in advance of the epidemic spiking, for 143 days. Pittsburgh closed 7 days after the peak and only for 53 days. And the death rate for the epidemic in St. Louis was roughly one-third as high as in Pittsburgh. These things work.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 11/03/2020 21:49

Last time to try however not not sure why it’s not posting. Confused

Worried about coronavirus thread 22
Nearlyalmost50 · 11/03/2020 21:49

Michelleoftheresistance I noticed that, laughing at anyone suggesting older members of the House or those with conditions could be vulnerable. Even though one of them out of 600 has got it (what's the chances of that if you believe the prevalence stats?)

FacingtheAbess · 11/03/2020 21:49

Fur I'm not sure how I can keep safe and by proxy my family when I'm on a site with 2000 and if I don't go in I won't get paid.

SansaSnark · 11/03/2020 21:49

It's totally anecdotal, but I remember reading an Italian doctor on twitter saying that initially it was very elderly people and those with other health conditions needing critical care. Then it was the over 60s, and when he had posted his tweets at the start of the week, he was starting to see patients in their 40s needing critical care.

I agree that Nadine Dorries is possibly wrong, but I also have a bit of sympathy with her- in her situation you'd want to believe you were over the worst of it, wouldn't you?

emsy86 · 11/03/2020 21:50

why is nobody question countries with many more cases than we have not closing schools.....Spain, France, Germany, USA for example... i would be much more inclined to follow these countries then that of Kuwait, Bahrain, north Korea and Mongolia thanks

Furfockssake · 11/03/2020 21:50

Langbannedforsafeguardingkids The Government need lots of people to get it. They can't impose social distancing measures too early as then all that would happen is as soon as they lift the restrictions, the herd immunity wouldn't be in place and we would be facing the same scenario all over again, having already tanked our economy. They have said clearly - they can only take these measures once - and it isn't the right time yet

Bumblesbumbles · 11/03/2020 21:50

@Furfockssake you are so right about the numbers game

Michelleoftheresistance · 11/03/2020 21:51

The line about in 10-14 days people with any respiratory symptoms etc etc was trotted out again, despite Chris Whitty having said this two days ago, so it should now be 8-12 days if it's got any real actual meaning or intent based on a plan.

Instead of just a vague throw away line not meaning very much.

Quartz2208 · 11/03/2020 21:51

@MangePasTesOnglesVilain accept actually it doesnt its conclusions arent clear simply because children arent widely affected

*A growing body of evidence suggests that school closure can reduce transmission of
influenza. However, this effect is not seen consistently, and its likely magnitude, as well as
the optimum timing and duration, remain unclear. There are several reasons for this
uncertainty:
33

  1. In many published epidemiological studies and outbreak reports, school closure was
implemented relatively late in the outbreak, at which point incidence may have begun to decline even if schools remained open.
  1. During outbreaks (both seasonal and pandemic), the use of multiple interventions often
makes it difficult to assess the effects of school closures alone.
  1. It is unclear to what extent changes in contact patterns and transmission occurring
during seasonal influenza and past pandemics may be extrapolated to a future pandemic. Data from the 2009 pandemic support the conclusion that school closures can reduce transmission of influenza in contemporary settings; however, the results from these studies may not be applicable to a new pandemic virus which may have different epidemiological properties (e.g. a higher case fatality ratio or more uniform age-specific attack rates than those seen during previous pandemics).
  1. Mathematical modelling studies have also reached varying conclusions regarding the
magnitude of the effects of school closures on an influenza pandemic, due to differences in their underlying assumptions regarding both viral properties and human behaviour.
  1. Past pandemics have varied in important characteristics which influence the effects of
school closures (e.g. age-specific attack rates), and the features of a future pandemic cannot be predicted. Several conclusions can be drawn from the identified published literature:
  1. The fact that some epidemiological studies showed increases in incidence after schools
reopened suggests that school closures can reduce transmission under certain circumstances.
  1. The timing of school closure is likely to be critical, with the intervention likely to be more
effective if implemented relatively early in the epidemic, although this also depends on the duration of closure. However, there is limited evidence available regarding both the optimal timing and duration of closure from either the epidemiological or modelling literature. A limit at which it is “too late” to close schools is not currently demonstrated in the limited literature available.
  1. School closures are able to reduce transmission amongst children. Evidence regarding
the effects on adults is less consistent, but generally transmission amongst adults appears to be relatively unaffected by school closures.
  1. Both epidemiological and modelling studies have found that the peak and cumulative
attack rates can be reduced by school closures. The extent of these reductions is however unclear, and likely to depend on many factors including population behaviour, viral transmissibility and age-specific attack rates. Modelling studies consistently predict that school closure would have a greater effect on peak than cumulative attack rates.
  1. Modelling studies indicate that school closures are likely to achieve the greatest
reductions in peak incidence and cumulative attack rates if the transmissibility of the causative virus is relatively low and if attack rates are higher in children than in other age groups.
  1. Reactive local closures and pro-active national closures both appear to have had an
effect on transmission. However, further work is required to assess the relative benefits of different school closure strategies.*

Now I do think we should be working from home, limiting travel and certainly shutting down flights and increasing security at airports. And I think fines and attendance should be stopped so parents can make individual decisions.

Furfockssake · 11/03/2020 21:52

@FacingtheAbess I wasn't saying you necessarily can. But anyone who is waiting to be told what to do doesn't need to. If you can take action and you're just waiting to be told, don't wait.

MangePasTesOnglesVilain · 11/03/2020 21:52

EducatingArtil
That was the point I made a few posts up. They are using flu research when It's Not Flu.

Michelleoftheresistance · 11/03/2020 21:52

herd immunity wouldn't be in place

That this would be achieved at all is by no means certain and it is a bloody huge gamble to take considering that to let a whole population get it in the hope of achieving this herd immunity means sacrificing the vulnerable ones.

FacingtheAbess · 11/03/2020 21:52

I'm sorry but this going to the pub theory?

Why is going to the pub on match night going to be more dangerous than the pub on the weekend?

SansaSnark · 11/03/2020 21:52

The last country I would be following right now is the USA.

Spain, France and Germany have all banned gatherings over a certain size. We haven't even done that yet!