Coronovirus message from Italy

[gardenflowergirl]

Saw this message from an Italian on Facebook, saying it's going to be worse than we've been told:

TO ALL MY FRIENDS AROUND THE WORLD

Hello everybody, long post.
It's again about Corona virus. As you might know the situation here in Italy is tragic. With the wrong decisions that have been taken not to stop the economy, we are now at the point in which in the next 2 weeks we can expect to have the doctors to cure those who have a longer expectation of life and not to cure the others. Many many people are sick and many people need breathing support. True that italy has dismantled the best health system in the world (and we are now rushing to buy breathing machines) and we pay he consequences of this but it is also true that his virus is a true calamity, something that we have never seen before. So the message is to warn you. If you have cases in your country and they are telling you it is just a flue, it is wrong. It is just a flue for some but we have also 30 years old or less in intensive care, not to talk about old people or 50/60 years old people. The virus is highly contagious, I need to remark this.... and it spreads also before symptoms appear. From what I see there are cases in Europe, in the US etc. They will probably tell you the situation is serious when it will be serious so please start to take precautions now. It doesn't matter if you feel that you appear over worried, believe me. Some weeks ago we had an important basketball event, February 13th/16th with many people coming from the north. Now, March 10th, we have about 20 people in intensive care (100.000 people city) and in Niguarda hospital in Milan (much bigger) they have 30. Regular hospitals activities are no longer possible, if we don't stop the virus we might die also for a very stupid reason because the regular hospital activities are blocked. Even this past weekend people where at the beach and this happened for 3 reasons: italians tend not to respect the rules, young people think they don't get sick but they don't understand they'll make their parents sick and finally you don't see this enemy until doctors start to literally beg you to stay home because they have been working non stop for days and nights and they know they won't be able to assist everybody...or you start to hear that someone that you know is sick, two of my friends have sick parents for example. Personally I am doing all I can including using all the means I have not to go to work but many firms still haven't understood that they must stop. Please pray for this nightmare to end, it is the greatest struggle we have faced since world war. Schools are closed and we are trying to stay connected and work from home. Supermarkets now force you to keep distances and use masks...I mean, it's an apocalipctical scenario hard to believe and to explain. Do all you can to ask your governments to act immediately and strongly, no economy is worth a massacre like this. The world needs to review priorities. Again please say a prayer for us, we don't deserve to end like this. Take care ❤

[Seventyone72seventy3]

Now I know how Cassandra felt

[Nekoness]

@AngelicaKauffman proven by the countries who have adapted these measures. Honestly, the data of how many cases where is all online per country by dates in a handy graph no less . Instead of demanding proof from others, look it up. In countries that adapt strong containment measures from the get go, the wave looks grey.

[Seventyone72seventy3]

What does the grey wave mean?

[AngelicaKauffman]

@AngelicaKauffman proven by the countries who have adapted these measures. Honestly, the data of how many cases where is all online per country by dates in a handy graph no less . Instead of demanding proof from others, look it up. In countries that adapt strong containment measures from the get go, the wave looks grey

Wow, calm down. I didn't demand anything. I just asked what the evidence was behind an unsubstantiated claim you said was very evident.

If you don't want to explain it you don't have to. Everyone on the internet is an expert anyway.

[AnneOfTeenFables]

Everyone on the internet is an expert anyway
No, they're not. But the experts are online and the facts and figures regarding testing, containment, numbers infected etc, are all online. As is the advice from the WHO.
It's not difficult to read or find what some of the foremost experts in the world think about coronavirus.

[Reginabambina]

It’s really annoying when these things get overdramatised like this. Even so, lots of valid advice about being sensible and prepared and the importance of following advice once it’s issued.

[EvilPea]

It will be interesting to see what happens in the countries with lock down, when they go back to normal life. Will the virus pop up again and then lock down happens again, whilst people are fairly ok with it now. If it happens time and time again, I don’t see people being so compliant.

[AnneOfTeenFables]

If the death toll rises, I think people will be compliant.
Realistically it seems to be about staggering peaks so the health services have a chance of coping.

[AngelicaKauffman]

It's not difficult to read or find what some of the foremost experts in the world think about coronavirus

Agreed. But still most people act like they're speaking form a position of authority because they can repeat an opinion they read on one article somewhere.

[AnneOfTeenFables]

Honestly, I think people are scared and the conflicting expert advice isn't helping. Added to that, the fact the UK seems to be interpreting that advice differently from every other government, is making people worried.

[myohmywhatawonderfulday]

I am on an international facebook group and some Italiens have just posted to say that they are in a very serious situation and that we are being lied to - it is effecting young and healthy people very badly. It is very concerning.

[AuldAlliance]

French news today reported that the virus affects not only older generations but also younger people, in whom it resembles MERS-CoV. They quoted a paper published in ^Nature: citizens in Wuhan, incl. aged 20-40, went to the doctor complaining of palpitations and chest constriction, not thinking it was anything to do with CV. It appears that it was, that it affects the heart as well as lungs and that it has serious cardiac after-effects.

[AnneOfTeenFables]

Auld I read an article in a science journal last week that quoted experts saying it was likely to affect all ages. It's just that it impacts quicker on the elderly and vulnerable. It's very worrying.

[theflushedzebra]

Yes, younger people are now in ICU in Italy, reportedly. They're not even treating the over 60's there now, and are having to choose who gets the ventilator, and who dies.

I can't believe people are still underplaying this. Even if it was only the old people, the people with underlying health issues - don't you have parents/grandparents that you are afraid for?

[AuldAlliance]

Anne it is v. worrying - all the more so as everyone has adapted to the idea that people under 60 or 70 will be fine. That's already a shedload of victims.

Then, when you look at the data, "recovering" sounds like good news - but in some cases it could literally just mean "didn't die and will be able to leave hospital."
Evidence seems to suggest that after recovery CV sufferers may well have lasting respiratory or cardiac problems.

[AngelicaKauffman]

Evidence seems to suggest that after recovery CV sufferers may well have lasting respiratory or cardiac problems

No disrespect but it would be good to actually see that evidence. I've googled it but can't find the study you mentioned. So many people online repeating things they've heard or read that nobody knows what's true and what's not.

[BookMeOnTheSudExpress]

Yes they are treating the over 60s.

[AuldAlliance]

I googled too. I think it's probably this one, but will look further.
www.nature.com/articles/s41569-020-0360-5?proof=trueMay
Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infects host cells through ACE2 receptors, leading to coronavirus disease (COVID-19)-related pneumonia, while also causing acute myocardial injury and chronic damage to the cardiovascular system. Therefore, particular attention should be given to cardiovascular protection during treatment for COVID-19.

The patients presented with heart palpitations and chest tightness rather than with respiratory symptoms, such as fever and cough, but were later diagnosed with COVID-19.

A 12-year follow-up survey of 25 patients who recovered from SARS-CoV infection found that 68% had hyperlipidaemia, 44% had cardiovascular system abnormalities and 60% had glucose metabolism disorders.

FWIW, France Info is a public service radio and wouldn't have broadcast information like this today, quoting an article in Nature, if there wasn't an article in Nature saying such things. And I don't post "things I've read or heard" unless I have very good reason to trust them.

[Justaboy]

Have a look on this graph chart the bottom right hand one click on the PLUS sign on ther top right hand side and thta will expand it, you can see the recovered rate is ramping up the infection rate for China has almost leveled off but the rest of the world is rising sharply.

gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

[AnneOfTeenFables]

Auld yy. The long-term consequences remain to be seen but there seems a cautious expectation that they could also create susceptibility to other illnesses in the future.
An Italian report today said ICU had people aged from 30 to 60.
I have a parent in their 80s, siblings in their 60s. Last week, I wouldn't have even considered my siblings to be 'old'. This week, I'm realising they're included in the 'elderly and at risk ' category. It's terrifying.

[Justaboy]

I have a parent in their 80s

One of our relatives has a job where she nurses and helps old people in their homes she wryly remarked in a chat we had that;

"well as long as I don't pick it up they'll be fine and for most all of them no bugger ever goes to see them anyway".

[todayisnottuesday]

Yes, younger people are now in ICU in Italy, reportedly. They're not even treating the over 60's there now, and are having to choose who gets the ventilator, and who dies

Nonsense. They will triaging, and prioritising those most likely to benefit from treatment, this is common practice, but it is too simple to say they go just on age, they go on many factors. A 65 year old in good health would be prioritised over a 50 year old with multiple co-morbidities/ existing very poor health. You are scaremongering. If you are that concerned, why not get off here and do something useful such as set up a support/ delivery service to those self isolating. That goes for quite a few on here actually.

[Nekoness]

Sorry, how do you know that @todayisnottuesday - can you link to your source or are you just expressing your opinion as if it was a fact?

I follow a few medical professionals on twitter and their Italian colleagues are reporting otherwise.

If there’s contrary accounts elsewhere, please! Share them.

[Nekoness]

Ah, my apologies @todayisnottuesday - I misread your post and I’m agreeing with you. What you said is what I also read on Twitter.

[Nekoness]

It’s frightening they’re not even being assessed 😥