Coronovirus message from Italy

[gardenflowergirl]

Saw this message from an Italian on Facebook, saying it's going to be worse than we've been told:

TO ALL MY FRIENDS AROUND THE WORLD

Hello everybody, long post.
It's again about Corona virus. As you might know the situation here in Italy is tragic. With the wrong decisions that have been taken not to stop the economy, we are now at the point in which in the next 2 weeks we can expect to have the doctors to cure those who have a longer expectation of life and not to cure the others. Many many people are sick and many people need breathing support. True that italy has dismantled the best health system in the world (and we are now rushing to buy breathing machines) and we pay he consequences of this but it is also true that his virus is a true calamity, something that we have never seen before. So the message is to warn you. If you have cases in your country and they are telling you it is just a flue, it is wrong. It is just a flue for some but we have also 30 years old or less in intensive care, not to talk about old people or 50/60 years old people. The virus is highly contagious, I need to remark this.... and it spreads also before symptoms appear. From what I see there are cases in Europe, in the US etc. They will probably tell you the situation is serious when it will be serious so please start to take precautions now. It doesn't matter if you feel that you appear over worried, believe me. Some weeks ago we had an important basketball event, February 13th/16th with many people coming from the north. Now, March 10th, we have about 20 people in intensive care (100.000 people city) and in Niguarda hospital in Milan (much bigger) they have 30. Regular hospitals activities are no longer possible, if we don't stop the virus we might die also for a very stupid reason because the regular hospital activities are blocked. Even this past weekend people where at the beach and this happened for 3 reasons: italians tend not to respect the rules, young people think they don't get sick but they don't understand they'll make their parents sick and finally you don't see this enemy until doctors start to literally beg you to stay home because they have been working non stop for days and nights and they know they won't be able to assist everybody...or you start to hear that someone that you know is sick, two of my friends have sick parents for example. Personally I am doing all I can including using all the means I have not to go to work but many firms still haven't understood that they must stop. Please pray for this nightmare to end, it is the greatest struggle we have faced since world war. Schools are closed and we are trying to stay connected and work from home. Supermarkets now force you to keep distances and use masks...I mean, it's an apocalipctical scenario hard to believe and to explain. Do all you can to ask your governments to act immediately and strongly, no economy is worth a massacre like this. The world needs to review priorities. Again please say a prayer for us, we don't deserve to end like this. Take care ❤

@emsy86 I am very aware of media hype/selling newspapers etc. I'm always alert to this and take everything with a pinch of salt. Think outside the box - make my own mind up etc etc

This is different. The story with Caroline Flack and others like it touch a tiny part of the world. Whole countries are not shut down as a result these stories.

What are you suggesting here? I genuinely am interested to know. Do you honestly believe that Italy and China have been shut down because of media hype? Do you think that all the facts and figures are being made up?

You seem to be critical of those who have been, in your mind, hoodwinked by all of this. But you yourself seem to be being hoodwinked by conspiracy theories. Am I right in surmising this? If so where are you getting these conspiracy theories from?

I've never said there's no cause for concern, I've said shutting down the economy will likely have far worse consequences for public health and mortality rates.

I'm glad it's not my decision because it really isn't as straightforward as confining everyone to home.

Bottom line is if it was as bad as they say they would be letting news cameras in to help warn the world

Cameras and crew aren't going in because they don't want to catch the virus.

And then spread it.

I don't think anyone is suggesting panicking or shutting down the economy, but increased social-distancing has been shown to be effective.

@ElderAve , and the point people are questioning is "are they getting the balance right". Obviously there's economic implications which also adversely affect people. You aren't the only person who sees that.

From Guardian updates today:
We’ve had several readers contacting us today, asking why NHS 111 is not offering coronavirus testing for people who have not had close contact with a previously confirmed case or been to an affected country.
Sam Freedman, the CEO of the The Education Partnerships Group, tweeted:

Unfortunately I have a cough + a fever. Turns out I can't get a test because I haven't been to any affected countries or come into contact with a known case. Even though I have been through an airport + to a concert. This seems a major flaw in the testing system to say the least
— Sam Freedman (@Samfr)March 10, 2020

A colleague has also sent this insight from an anonymous person who works in the palace of Westminster. They write:

I work in parliament and developed the same symptoms as Nadine Dorries MP on the same day. I’ve had a dry cough, chest pain and fever for four days.
NHS 111 services triaged me away from Coronovirus on Friday. I could not be tested because I hadn’t been in close contact to a previously confirmed case.
The official 111 advice for me this morning – after calling again to check after hearing about Nadine Dorries MP – is to go to work with a cough, wash my hands, and assume that I don’t have it. (I am actually going to ignore that advice and work from home.)
I am worried that only testing people who have been ‘contact traced’ is missing a lot of people in the community, and that people like me may have coronavirus and are being advised to go to work anyway. Is this because the government simply can’t do the number of tests needed?

The NHS 111 coronavirus tool is currently advising that unless you have had direct contact with a confirmed case of coronavirus or have recently travelled from an affected area, you do not need to call NHS 111.

This is the current advice from NHS 111 for people with coughs and fever, but who haven't had direct contact with a confirmed case or travelled from a affected area. Currently no coronavirus testing unless direct contact or travel to an affected area confirmed.

The above could be one of the explanations who knows.

But It was a fact that Italy started to find case when started testing people with symptoms independently from who they came to contact with.

Another message from Italy:

I'm not sure how more seriously the general public are able to take it.
Other than washing our hands and making sure we have some tins in.
My work isn't closed so I have to go, I had flu last week that I suppose could have been coronavirus but I'll never know because I wasn't able to be tested.

I think it's really unfair to push it onto the public that we should be doing more when it's our government that has the power to enforce lock downs and social distancing.

@furrytoebean if you're concerned why not take annual leave and just stay at home away from everyone else? Why do you need the government to 'lock down the country' whatever that means.
One article I read from Italy said people were just hanging out with friends. If people are still socialising it seems to defeat the purpose of a lockdown to my mind.

The UK government haven't set up a department to deal with fake panic spreading for no reason. I think they are acting accordingly, trying to keep people calm and giving good advice about hand washing such as wash them as long as it takes to sing happy birthday twice and to phone 111 if you have symptoms, have been in contact with someone that has it or have recently returned from the countries on their list.

The last thing we need is the NHS being overwhelmed. They've carried out a lot of tests and only a very small portion have come back positive so that just shows you how many people are phoning up and saying 'I think I have the virus'. They don't need everyone and their dog thinking they have it and wasting resources. At the moment they seem to be able to track almost every case and the people that person has been in contact with and telling them all to stay inside and take precautions. It will become a nightmare when the scare mongering reaches a peak, we can't get basic things from the shops and the NHS has an abundance of idiots turning up with a sore head and a cough.

Just go about your life, wash your hands, don't shake hands or kiss strangers and stay inside and phone 111 if you're suddenly short of breath with no other explanation

if you're concerned why not take annual leave and just stay at home away from everyone else?

Because I'm self employed.

But that wasn't the point of my post anyway, my point was there are people saying that we should be doing more and I was questioning what exactly they are wanting us to do. Apart from washing hands there seems to be very little individuals can do at this point.

Also I never said 'lock down the country' which you have quoted.
I said 'enforce lock downs and social distancing'

The government hasn't even suggested that people who can work from home should yet.

A number of companies are facilitating people working from home where it's practicable, it's not an option for everyone though.
It's budget day so things are likely to change, although it's unlikely to be enough for those who think we're all doomed.

I have an interesting take on the Italian death stats and the lack of facilities to treat, I am from an Italian background.

Italy is pretty unique in Europe, and in the World in fact, in that it has many thousands of permanently intubated patients, including the very young and the very old. They have no acceptance of DNR's. Life is very sacred.

Is it therefore partly an explanation for their high death rates? Could be. Firstly because they have a high proportion of very fragile patients, and secondly, because high dependency beds are full of permanently unconscious patients, meaning there is little slack in the system for others.

By the way how does 'enforce lock downs and social distancing' differ from locking down the country?

Firstly I have several friends in Italy and go there a lot. I have had messages and info this week. They are all taking the stay at home policy as serious as possible, most notably the one metre space. Many shops are closing and those that open allow only a few people in at a time and respect the space. Yes Italians have a reputation for ignoring rules just as the brits do. Everyone I know is being very responsible. Their Health System is first class, better than ours in many ways. They stopped flights in from China very early on, have done more testing than any other European country. This is a Global Virus and it WILL travel all round. We need to be not hysterical, but sensible and prepared. Apart from the health issues, Italy will be hit massively financially. Our own infection is going to build up over the next few weeks, whatever we do. Stop stockpiling, stay at home more look after the elderly now before we have to start protecting them from contact. This is the state of play. Get on with it instead of headless chicken behaviour

I’m not scared. I’m prepared. This is my new motto.

The strategies are quite clear. We started trying to prevent and could not, now we are at the Delay phase and soon will move into Containment. trying to keep caution up and hysteria down. These epidemics are well known and to an extent predictable even if different in symptoms. There are so many epidemiologists advising and informing if only people would take the trouble to listen to them. Yes it is a catastrophe and there will be high costs, we have to deal with it the best we can, and that means best informed by people who actually know what they are talking about

By the way how does 'enforce lock downs and social distancing' differ from locking down the country?

Well there's obviously a middle ground between everyone just getting on with their lives and a full lock down quarantine.

I know you say that lots of employers are encouraging people to work from home if they can but on the other hand lots aren't.
My dh usually works from home two days a week anyway, it would be very easy for his employer to say they all should work from home now and yet they haven't.
I think if the government just made an announcement saying that they're advising employers to implement their work from home policies if they can then that would go a long way.

People are going to assume that they can go about their lives as normal until told otherwise.

At the moment if a small business closes due to the coronavirus it could have a serious knock on affect to their reputation, and they wouldn't be able to claim against insurance because they've chosen to close.

If businesses are still open most people are going to assume that it's ok to use them.

Things are clearly bad in Italy but I'm not convinced they're "that" bad.

Has your husband actually asked if he can work from home full time for the time being? If more people ask then the business might consider it.

The consequences of any actions taken shouldn't be underestimated. Flybe has already collapsed in part due to Coronavirus. Flybe accounted for around 90% of business at Southampton airport. That's a lot of jobs lost and how many more will follow.

The government issue plenty of advice and lots choose to ignore it so why would this be any different?

@SnoozyLou

Yep! its only the Flu !! No need to worry

In a separate note, Italian intensive care doctor Giuseppe Nattino, from the Lecco province in northern Italy, has shared a clinical summary of the patients his unit has been treating, which doctors described as “frightening” in terms of what it could mean for the UK.

The technical note spells out how patients with coronavirus experience a severe infection in all of their lungs, requiring major ventilation support. It also reveals the effect of the virus, which affects blood pressure, the heart, kidneys and liver with patients needing sustained treatment.

Dr Nattino said: “A week ago we opened a six-bed ICU for Covid-19 critically ill patients. In two days our unit filled up and we extended it to 10 beds on 3 March which filled up during the same afternoon. Now we’re planning to merge the cardio and general ICUS to use the general ICU beds for 10 more Covid-19 patients.”

In an alarming development, Dr Nattino said younger patients were being affected, saying the ages of patients ranged from 46 to 83 with only a small number having important underlying conditions.

He added: “The last days are showing a younger population involved as if the elderly and weaker part of the population crashed early and now younger patients, having exhausted their physiological reserves, come to overcrowded, overwhelmed hospitals with little resources left.”

One UK doctor said this latter point needed careful consideration by NHS hospitals, adding: “We need to be careful to have some ICU capacity for younger patients. This is where important difficult decisions need to be made.”

Another intensive care doctor from the north of England said Dr Nattino’s note showed coronavirus patients suffered a lack of oxygen in their blood, meaning they need a ventilator, with large parts of the lung affected by the virus.

The doctor added: “The inflammation in their lungs carries on for a long time. Patients need strong drugs in high doses to maintain their blood pressure. Kidney failure requiring a kidney machine is common and the patients later in their stay are starting to have blood tests showing liver damage.”

A spokesperson for the NHS said: "Every country is responding to this new virus, and as the chief medical officer has said, routine non urgent services could well come under pressure, so it’s right that the lessons and recommendations from Italy are now being put into practice in England.

I have a family member in Italy who runs accommodation. Cannot have any guests. Only allowing 3 people in the supermarket at a time and have to be at least a meter apart at all times