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Covid

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Coronavirus thread 13

999 replies

KenAdams · 05/03/2020 14:18

Previous thread here.

We are using Worldometer, BDO and Dr John Campbell videos as part of the discussions.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
WhyNotMe40 · 05/03/2020 18:54

Can I ask if anyone had any knowledge on how to remove the virus from objects brought into the house? I'm thinking lunch boxes school bags, water bottles?
Obviously there is no way I can wash their coats every time they come home from school, but at the minute I am giving lunch boxes a wipe with the washing up cloth, and then just wiping the surface they sat on in the kitchen with the washing up cloth and washing up water - but that's probably not good enough?
Would anti bacterial multi surface wipes (say they are good for H1N1 virus so can do at least one virus) be any better? I don't want to start spraying bleach around all the time....

usernameishistory · 05/03/2020 18:55

This is worth posting, so everyone knows clearly the expert worldwidw advice!!

WHO Director-General's opening remarks at the media briefing on COVID-19 - 5 March 2020

WHO Director-General's opening remarks at the media briefing on COVID-19 - 5 March 2020
5 March 2020

Good afternoon, and thank you once again for joining us in person and online.

Today I want to start by saying thank you to all our colleagues in the media. As providers of information, you play a vital role in the response to COVID-19.

The fight against rumours and misinformation is a vital part of the battle against this virus. We rely on you to make sure people have accurate information about the threat they face, and how to protect themselves and others.

Now to the numbers.

There is now a total of 95,265 reported cases of COVID-19 globally, and 3281 deaths.

In the past 24 hours, China reported 143 cases. Most cases continue to be reported from Hubei province, and 8 provinces have not reported any cases in the last 14 days.

Outside China, 2055 cases were reported in 33 countries. Around 80% of those cases continue to come from just three countries.

We see encouraging signs from the Republic of Korea. The number of newly-reported cases appears to be declining, and the cases that are being reported are being identified primarily from known clusters.

Although a few countries are reporting large numbers of cases, 115 countries have not reported any cases.

21 countries have reported only one case.

And 5 countries that had reported cases have not reported new cases in the past 14 days.

The experience of these countries and of China continues to demonstrate that this is not a one-way street.

This epidemic can be pushed back, but only with a collective, coordinated and comprehensive approach that engages the entire machinery of government.

We are calling on every country to act with speed, scale and clear-minded determination.

Although we continue to see the majority of cases in a handful of countries, we are deeply concerned about the increasing number of countries reporting cases, especially those with weaker health systems.

However, this epidemic is a threat for every country, rich and poor. As we have said before, even high-income countries should expect surprises. The solution is aggressive preparedness.

We’re concerned that some countries have either not taken this seriously enough, or have decided there’s nothing they can do.

We are concerned that in some countries the level of political commitment and the actions that demonstrate that commitment do not match the level of the threat we all face.

This is not a drill.

This is not the time to give up.

This is not a time for excuses.

This is a time for pulling out all the stops.

Countries have been planning for scenarios like this for decades. Now is the time to act on those plans.

These are plans that start with leadership from the top, coordinating every part of government, not just the health ministry – security, diplomacy, finance, commerce, transport, trade, information and more – the whole government should be involved.

Activate your emergency plans through that whole-government approach.

Educate your public, so that people know what the symptoms are and know how to protect themselves and others.

Increase your testing capacity.

Get your hospitals ready.

Ensure essential supplies are available.

Train your health workers to identify cases, provide careful and compassionate treatment, and protect themselves from infection.

If countries act aggressively to find, isolate and treat cases, and to trace every contact, they can change the trajectory of this epidemic.

If we take the approach that there’s nothing we can do, that will quickly become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It’s in our hands.

WHO has published step-by-step guidelines for countries to develop their national action plans according to eight key areas, which are supported by detailed technical guidance.

We call on all countries to accelerate those plans, and we stand ready to work with them to do that.

More funding is being made available to support countries that need it, and that have plans in place.

As you know, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund have both made funds available to stabilize health systems and mitigate the economic consequences of the epidemic, with a special focus on enabling access to critical supplies and equipment.

I had also a very fruitful discussion with the President of the African Development Bank.

This is funding that is available now to countries who need it, in line with WHO’s Strategic Preparedness and Response Plan.

These funds are essential for supporting the response now, but also for long-term preparedness.

Although COVID-19 presents an acute threat now, it is absolutely essential that countries do not lose this opportunity to strengthen their preparedness systems.

We know people are afraid, and that’s normal and appropriate.

That fear can be managed and moderated with accurate information. Today WHO has launched a new social media campaign called Be Ready for COVID-19, which urges people to be safe, smart and informed.

If you feel overwhelmed by fear, reach out to those around you. Find out what your community’s emergency response plans are, how you fit in and how you can help.

There’s still a lot we don’t know, but every day we’re learning more, and we’re working around the clock to fill in the gaps in our knowledge.

Ultimately, how deadly this virus will be depends not only on the virus itself, but on how we respond to it.

This is a serious disease. It is not deadly to most people, but it can kill.

We’re all responsible for reducing our own risk of infection, and if we’re infected, for reducing our risk of infecting others.

There’s something all of us can do to protect vulnerable people in our communities.

That’s why we keep talking about solidarity.

This is not just a threat for individual people, or individual countries.

We’re all in this together, and we can only save lives together.

I thank you

justchecking1 · 05/03/2020 18:55
  • If this is about kiling off the vulnerable, those most at risk are the most vulnerable to dying of cold and flu virises aswell, yet NHs run an expensive vaccination programme for all vulnerable. It would save the NHS huge amounts of money to not do that.

I don't hold with these murky evil intent conspiracies.*

Yes, User, but stopping vaccinating would involve saying we could save your life but we're not going to. This way it just involves being a little bit inept and letting nature take its course. The government can't be inequivocally blamed for a brand new virus sweeping through the nation in the same way it could be for refusing to use an already available vaccine

TheRealHousewife · 05/03/2020 18:56

@MurrayTheMonk why didn’t the Boss self isolate? Total disregard for the vulnerable cohort he works with.

PinkyU · 05/03/2020 18:57

I’ve just read that 3 of the newest cases were “intensive care patients”, so no travel or exposure to high risk persons (probably), does this mean that the nhs workforce in these hospitals have been exposed and are spreading the virus?

Youngatheart00 · 05/03/2020 19:00

Are we the only county adopting this “throw them to the lions” approach???

ofwarren · 05/03/2020 19:01

Germany reports 109 new confirmed coronavirus cases t.co/xzsSjuFybS t.co/HxlvIC9Fv8

Youngatheart00 · 05/03/2020 19:01

*country

Oakmaiden · 05/03/2020 19:03

He is getting advice from Medically trained people.

He is also getting advice from economists and a plethora of other people. And then he has to decide which advice to take. I have no idea what advice he has been offered, so I don't know whether he is disregarding, or putting less emphasis on, medical advice or not. But I know what it looks like at the moment.

Out of interest - does anyone know if they automatically test family members of a confirmed case? Or if they wait for them to show symptoms too?

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2020 19:03

"the fact BJ is talking about middle ground suggests he doesn't have the stomach for that."

If he gambles and loses, the Tories would be destroyed at the next GE

However, if the gamble were to pay off, he would have new childish chants in his Cabinet meetings: "I was right"

LambriniSocialist · 05/03/2020 19:03

Who do you think would have been advising corybn and would corybn over ride advise of chief medial officer?

Christ on a bike, the thought of Corbyn and Co being in charge of this doesn't even bear thinking about!

Nearlyalmost50 · 05/03/2020 19:04

HelenaDove I thought about this as I am still on a key meter! That means you have to leave the house to top up- and depending how much money you have and depending how quickly you use it if you have dependents/people at home in the day, that could be every few days.

My strategy is to top up to the max as often as possible. But that does rely on the money to do that, I do agree.

You are right, no-one in government will think about key meter people.

LambriniSocialist · 05/03/2020 19:05

Out of interest - does anyone know if they automatically test family members of a confirmed case? Or if they wait for them to show symptoms too?

They are testing the family members. Well the ones who live with them and have come back from the same place abroad anyway.

Oakmaiden · 05/03/2020 19:06

Are we the only county adopting this “throw them to the lions” approach

I don't know that that is really what is happening. We are at an earlier stage than places like China/Italy/S Korea/Iran so it could be when we are at the same stage as them we will have taken the same actions.

Of course it would be nice to think we would be ahead of the curve and prevent this country from reaching that point - but there is neither the public nor political will for it.

If countries act aggressively to find, isolate and treat cases, and to trace every contact, they can change the trajectory of this epidemic.

I know we ARE doing this. But are we doing it aggressively enough? I worry that we may not be.

Alwayscheerful · 05/03/2020 19:07

@WhyNotMe40
I am using Milton to sterilise all hard items such as as lunch boxes Tupperware and water bottles. I am using it with cold water and my washing up bowl.
I have been advised the following are effective at killing the virus.
Milton
Bleach
Dettol
I also have a Spray labelled effective against MRSA I am hoping that's is OK too. I called Booker Pro Clean team and they said I was the first to ask which of their vast range of professional cleaning products was effective against the CV. apparently I was the first to call and ask the question. It begs the question what are the nursing* homes and hotels using?

Youngatheart00 · 05/03/2020 19:07

@usernameishistory that is a MASSIVE kick up the bum for the UK govt there. Their passive attitude is just not what is called for

GorkyMcPorky · 05/03/2020 19:07

This is a time for pulling out all the stops.

Ha. The UK government wouldn't even know where the fucking stops are.

AvocadoOwl · 05/03/2020 19:07

If the economy ends up completely fucked who do you think will be among those hit hardest? That's right, all the people whom will be affected by MNers fantasy government 'eugenics' plan.

Come on people, think through what you are saying. Letting the virus run wild comes with an astronomical economic cost, it's hardly the 'cheap' option.

There is a balance to be struck. I'm not saying the govt are handling it perfectly but the idea that they are happy to kill off swathes of pensioners and other vulnerable groups for financial gain is nonsense.

Oakmaiden · 05/03/2020 19:07

They are testing the family members.

OK- - that probably means the Swansea case (results out last Thursday) didn't pass it on to his family, so probably hasn't passed it to anyone else either.

CrunchyCarrot · 05/03/2020 19:08

yet NHs run an expensive vaccination programme for all vulnerable

And Big Pharma are making a tidy buck out of it, too.

mrshoho · 05/03/2020 19:10

They can fuck right off if they close parliament. Superspreaders! Do me a favour. They are protecting themselves more likely. If they do this they should be made to work in our hospitals alongside frontline medics and also in our police force. They must not be allowed to isolate themselves.

FaisPasCiFaisPasCa · 05/03/2020 19:11

WHO dg Tedros said on Tuesday they have no authority over governments, but they do tell them repeatedly if they disagree with their handling of the virus. I do feel he was having a go there at the richer nations (US/UK) who aren't doing enough for political reasons.

I don't buy the theory that they're trying to fail and let people die.

I think it's more that they have an eye on the after pandemic situation when're they're accused of being either too quick to shutdown economic activities/school-causing a depression/recession meaning society is severely affected-or too late allowing a lot of deaths.

They are letting things spin out/unfold until there is overwhelming public pressure and people are not turning up at work/school because they are sick or scared. Then they act but it wasn't their fault that the economy tanks after.

We are playing along nicely to this narrative.

Notmyfault.gov

Gammeldragz · 05/03/2020 19:12

Haven't had a chance to catch up yet, manic day at work (I am a Practice Nurse) despite many patients cancelling appointments/avoiding the surgery due to coronavirus fears (or the rain, I suppose). Had to call one and talk them around to coming in.

Few work related observations/concerns...

  • our telephone triage questions still only ask about travel to China, N Italy and Shanghai (?), despite all the cases in S Korea, Iran etc. So I printed the latest list of countries and emailed management to get it changed. Haven't heard back yet so will make sure this is acted on tomorrow. Interesting some of the category 2 countries (isolate/111 if symptomatic) have fewer confirmed cases than us!
  • ordering stock, not able to get the Clinell wipes or hand gel (from our main supplier, didn't try others). We have some stock, but will definitely need more wipes in the next few weeks.
  • GPs seem confused about it all. Or frustrated. One kept coming in to my room telling me they had several patients with 2-3 weeks of cough and fever, not responding to antibiotics, but no travel history. Asking me how they can get them tested, but of course they can't. Patient would have to call 111 and as they don't meet current criteria they would not be tested. No way for GPs to get around this, that I can tell. GP is worried loads may have it and not be tested (join the club dear!). It is probably just another virus, but would be nice to be able to check! We have community spread now, so why can't we test?!
  • we haven't had updated advice from PHE for Primary Care in over a week (a lot changed in the last week!). So we're kind of running blind and relying on someone keeping up to date (I think I'm just going to nominate myself Coronavirus champion) enough to notice when things need to change. Very frustrating!
FaisPasCiFaisPasCa · 05/03/2020 19:14

As I said earlier in the day, we need to have an temporary authoritarian approach to government.

We aren't used to this but it is required.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2020 19:15

Other countries seem to be listening to their public health experts more

I'm in Germany and the government emphasis is far more on containment & mitigation, than the economy

There also is more existing organisation - e.g. the BKK (Federal Office of Civil Protection and Disaster Assistance) - to tackle disasters, more resources and more capacity:

In Germany, we have considerably more doctors per 1,000 population than the UK
and 8 hospital beds per 1,000 vs 2.54 for the UK (which is slightly below even the USA)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListoffOECDcountriessbyhospitall_beds

btw, Japan and S Korea are #1 & #2 for hospital beds, which is probably one reason why S Korea's COVID death rate is so low despite the high number of cases - pp were asking about this
Italy is quite far down the list

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