Middle East conflict and whether Western blame oversimplifies its causes

[Ihatetomatoes]

I read a number of theads that I don't contribute on and wasn't sure where to pop this. There are many misconceptions about how 'The West' are at fault for much/many/all of the problems in the middle east. I came across this and thought I'd share it. The first suicide bomber - not due to any conflict with a Western power but arose from the conflict of Iran/Iraq.

Something that I thought might be useful for those in the West who like to blame all the ills of the world on the west and spread the myth that the middle east would be utopia if The West hadn't have etc etc etc. Issues and problems are mostly multi factorial and nuanced and the problems have built up over many, many years and it seems ridiculous to read or hear the 'the west/British/colonisers etc etc' are the fault of the problems in the middle east. Not so. Many reasons for conflicts and problems, many, many reasons.

"The modern Middle-Eastern suicide bomber, the archetypal face of 21st-century terrorism, did not first emerge from the rubble of 9/11 nor the insurgencies in Iraq and Syria. Rather, the modern architecture of martyrdom was born earlier, in a different war and under a different banner: that of the Islamic Republic of Iran during its brutal conflict with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq in the 1980s."

from here: https://aoav.org.uk/2025/the-martyrs-logic-why-provoking-iran-risks-a-global-spiral-of-violence/

Interesting argument.

Like if you ran over someone with your car and they died. You accept your action was detrimental to their physical health- but other variables could have caused their death, like their chronic smoking or lack of physical exercise.

I am curious about why you're twisting yourself into a pretzel defending something that has been widely accepted by politicians, academia, and the world really. Does it make you feel personal guilt or something

My husband used to be a paramedic. He attended a scene once where the impact was minor, with no injuries. Yet one of the passengers died of a heart attack, presumably because of the shock.

He also attended many accidents where to speed of the not at fault driver was a factor in the extent of the injuries.

So yes. Things have multiple causes. Things are complex. I'm finding it very odd that people are arguing against this.

The state of a nation is also vastly more complex than whether or not someone passed in an RTA.

I don't really feel I've twisted myself at all to be fair. I simply think the West has done a lot of terrible things and other nations have too. Because at heart I believe we're all pretty similar and prone to the same kinds of behaviors.

You seem to think I'm arguing the West is not to blame. I'm not. I'm saying its not totally to blame. Just like that old man wasn't totally to blame for his wife's death in the minor accident he caused.

The problem in talking about how complex it all is, serves to minimises the damage by muting the urgency of the need for change now. It just comes across as self indulgent navel gazing tbh

How? That makes no sense. There is nothing more self indulgent than the hand wringing of the 'its all our fault' brigade.

But let's go with it. You think the simple answer to all the ME's problems is 'the West'. You think accepting that means we accept the urgent need for 'change now'. What happens next? What change happens?

I missed this first time as this thread went off on a tangent of historical nonsense & misunderstanding but this was the funniest. If Russia was The West, what do people think the Cold War was about? But I suppose it has to fit the narrative. Russia is supporting Iran, Iran has no agency and has to be someone's puppet ergo Russia is The West.

🤣

'Things are complex, and many peoples have a part to play in the many difficult situations faced by the people in the ME'

Self indulgent navel gazing!

'Things in the ME are totally our fault! Everything thats happened is due to us! We must do something immediately to help these poor victims! Perhaps some further meddling! But lets do good this time! They need help!'

Not self indulgent navel gazing.

Obviously, I don't agree.

This is why I asked the question, what does the proposition that its all our fault lead to? More meddling to put things right? Or no meddling at all? Is that a complete cut off tomorrow? Is it a phased de-meddling? What happens next? Is it business as usual but wearing hair shirts? Or, just perhaps, we might treat the peoples of the ME as grown ups like everyone else we do business with?

Business as usual with hair shirts ✔️

I've just ordered one on Amazon 😔

Using Amazon ... another bloody thing to feel guilty about.

Be the change etc (as Gandhi did NOT say).

I think it’s obvious that it is multi faceted.

There have been loads of other causes of instability in the ME, rivalries between countries, local armed groups. Corrupt governments, economic problems, interference by Russia (who are not “the west” ….

The west has been a major contributor towards instability. But not the only cause. I don’t think that takes away from the fact that the West needs to prioritise long term development and stability in its ME approach.

I agree, Its amazing that your post is controversial on this thread @gealach!

There's nothing controversial about it at all. Not everything is down to the West. The overthrow of King Faisal II of Iraq was not the West's fault but the subsequent overthrow of Qasim was, which led to Sadam Hussein and the bloody wars that followed. There were also indirect consequences. We only have the Ayatollahs in charge of Iran because the West arranged the overthrow of the democratically elected Mosadegh, replaced him with an unpopular monarchy which led to the communist Tudeh Party. The US were so obsessed with stopping them coming to power, when they realised the Shah was doomed, they effectively let Khomeini take over. I don't blame the West for all the troubles in the Middle East but, most of them, I do.

Even in the Iran Iraq war, As I understand it the US was feeding both side sat images. And lets not even get into the Iran Contra affair. And the Kurds in present day. Trump said he was arming the Kurds to fight Iran, but the Kurdistan they want is not all inside Iran.

For sure, the idea of a Kurdistan is something many support. But it should be done by dialogue. Not arming them so they can fight as a proxy.

Yeah, I've always found the Kurds a weird story. Turkey are probably their biggest enemy but during the Armenian genocide, they were the main mercenaries who did a lot of the killing.

I just started reading this to try and make sense of the Middle East. It written in a really accessible way and I am enjoying it so far.

I've read its very good and he is a very reliable guide.

I've heard of it but not read it. Let us know how it was when you finish it.

It's a slow read but I will let you know what I think when I finish it. We went to book event where he was talking and he is a great speaker. He knows his stuff. Impressive.