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Conflict in the Middle East

Hamas embedded in Gazan society

124 replies

Ihatetomatoes · 31/05/2026 09:36

I found this an interesting read. How hamas is deeply embedded in the fabric of Gazan society. Its an older article, not one Ive seen shared and helps to explain why Hamas hasn't gone.

https://themedialine.org/top-stories/how-hamas-still-holds-power-in-gaza-more-than-2-years-into-the-war/

How Hamas Still Holds Power in Gaza, More Than 2 Years Into the War  - The Media Line

Nearly two years after Israel launched a war […]

https://themedialine.org/top-stories/how-hamas-still-holds-power-in-gaza-more-than-2-years-into-the-war/

OP posts:
Mantanora · 31/05/2026 16:26

Ihatetomatoes · 31/05/2026 16:14

Various contries around Israel went to war with Israel after it was formed. They have worked towards peace for the good of themselves and Israel.

Peace would be easy if the Palestinians were allowed the same dignity, self determination and rights that all humans expect in their country. Yes there will be hard liners on both sides but they could be criminalized and dealt with by both sides. The resilience of the Palestinians combined with the ingenuity of the Israelis. Wow! What a country.

Ihatetomatoes · 31/05/2026 16:32

Mantanora · 31/05/2026 16:26

Peace would be easy if the Palestinians were allowed the same dignity, self determination and rights that all humans expect in their country. Yes there will be hard liners on both sides but they could be criminalized and dealt with by both sides. The resilience of the Palestinians combined with the ingenuity of the Israelis. Wow! What a country.

I can't see a single country working. Two states though with self determination alongside each other.

OP posts:
localnotail · 31/05/2026 16:39

Mantanora · 31/05/2026 13:02

What exactly do you want them to do? They had nothing to do with this and according to Egypt, they warned the Israelis on more than one occasion that Hamas were up to something big just before October 7th. As much as they might see what’s happened to Gaza as appalling, this is not their fight and has nothing to do with them.

Its much more to do with them than the Western countries. Firstly, a lot of support for Hamas comes from there. Also, none of the countries in the vicinity would take Gazan refugees - why? Israel accepted Jewish people from every one of the Middle eastern courtiers, so why every Muslim state in the region prefers to shut their doors to fellow Muslims?

localnotail · 31/05/2026 16:44

RedTagAlan · 31/05/2026 13:22

How are you going to define ordinary Palestinians ?

You know what I am going to say now. Pick me an ordinary Brit. Or a dozen. How many of them are going to agree on stuff.

There does appear to be a thing where some peoples are all lumped together. Hamas do terror, Hamas runs Gaza, therefore all Gazans are terrorists.

And yes, Gaza is a single party authoritarian state. Except it is not a State. Now we insert "freedom fighter" rather than terrorist. Then someone says " but freedom fighters do not bomb busses or rape women". And that is fair enough, esp the latter. Except of course, pretty much all wars of independence have involved Guerrilla warfare. So it all gets confusing. Lets throw in the West Bank too.

But yet the picture is painted by many that all Gazans are terrorists.

Ordinary Palestinians? I suppose the first step in finding any of them is to have an ordinary country for them to have the luxury of being ordinary in. Even with an ordinary country, good luck defining who is ordinary.

Ok - who are the people on the street? Women, children? Before the October attack, there were shops, cafes, workshops, etc, there would have been people working there? There was ordinary life, and I'm very sure not all Gazans were doing "freedom fighting" or trying to become martyrs. Or were they? Even refugee camps look like normal towns, with people trying to live their lives as normal as possible. So these are the people I'm talking about. Not soldiers, not Hamas apparatchiks, just normal hoi poloi.

likelysuspect · 31/05/2026 16:51

localnotail · 31/05/2026 16:39

Its much more to do with them than the Western countries. Firstly, a lot of support for Hamas comes from there. Also, none of the countries in the vicinity would take Gazan refugees - why? Israel accepted Jewish people from every one of the Middle eastern courtiers, so why every Muslim state in the region prefers to shut their doors to fellow Muslims?

Im not sure the countries around do support Hamas or at least the policies, as others have said, a tense peace has since developed over decades with Israel and the ME in general (give or take) and their overt policies are in opposition to what Hamas declare

Why would it be anything to do with them any more than its to do with any other country? Why would they take Gazan's in any more than any other country?

The answer to your question about why the Muslim states shut their doors on Gazans is exactly that. They've worked hard for this uneasy peace, they're not about to shit on their own doorstep with taking in people who could upset that.

RedTagAlan · 31/05/2026 16:52

Ihatetomatoes · 31/05/2026 16:13

I agree with this, start with 2 states but hasn't this been proposed and turned down several times before? So keep proposing it until the controlling governance of Gaza ie Hamas agree to finally try it. Also, getting the governance of Israel to agree now (they have agreed before) after such a large terrorist attack won't be easy. A new government might wish to look at a longer term solution.

Why wasn't the international pressure massive before to work to a 2 state solution. Why has the situation been allow to fester, with no solution and Gazans reduced to living on aid for a lifetime or more.

I'm sure you are right, there will be factions and some terrorist groups will fight it out with other terrorist groups as appears to be the way.

I think it has to start with Israel. And Netanyahu has been clear that there will be no 2 state solution.

And it has to be the oppressor that makes the first concession. Because they have the power. And I think no matter how it is spun or described; it is Israel who are being the oppressor.

Do a scale of -10, thro zero. to +10 on a thought experiment oppression scale. Put the raging antisemites at +10. For -10, I don't know, we could put a pro Israel "uncle tom" Palestinian podcaster. Objectively I reckon it would be difficult to put Israels actions against Palestine below +2 or +3. They are the oppressor, and it would take a lot of mental gymnastics to say they are not.

So I reckon it is up to Israel to make the first concession. To get the ball rolling.

Hamas could put their hands up now. Lay down their arms. Add in Hezbollah, Lebanon, the West bank. Syria, the Golan Heights. Tens of millions could say " OK Bibi, you win".

Would he then say "Good, lets stop the occupations and the settlements and set up the two states" ?

Nah. I could not see Nettanyahu say that.

Could you ?

likelysuspect · 31/05/2026 17:00

He wont last forever though

Who is said to be next in line as such? Do we know?

TomeTome · 31/05/2026 17:50

I wonder who is the bigger threat to the average civilian Palestinian, IDF or Hamas? It’s not really a sensible question though is it because it is the IDF and Israel who imprison and abuse tens of thousands of Palestinians, it is the IDF and Israel who bomb neighbourhood after neighbourhood. It isn’t really hard to see why you would prefer your own less dangerous government.

MissyB1 · 31/05/2026 18:18

TomeTome · 31/05/2026 17:50

I wonder who is the bigger threat to the average civilian Palestinian, IDF or Hamas? It’s not really a sensible question though is it because it is the IDF and Israel who imprison and abuse tens of thousands of Palestinians, it is the IDF and Israel who bomb neighbourhood after neighbourhood. It isn’t really hard to see why you would prefer your own less dangerous government.

Indeed. They don’t have to fear Hamas murdering them and their children in their tents as they sleep, they know exactly who it is that will do that.

Twiglets1 · 31/05/2026 18:19

TomeTome · 31/05/2026 17:50

I wonder who is the bigger threat to the average civilian Palestinian, IDF or Hamas? It’s not really a sensible question though is it because it is the IDF and Israel who imprison and abuse tens of thousands of Palestinians, it is the IDF and Israel who bomb neighbourhood after neighbourhood. It isn’t really hard to see why you would prefer your own less dangerous government.

The thing is though, Hamas as the government in charge were supposed to have made the lives of civilian Palestinians better. They received a lot of money to do so but did not spend it on anything to benefit civilians. Too obsessed with their dream of eradicating Israel.

What have they achieved in their nearly 20 years in power?

Ihatetomatoes · 31/05/2026 18:31

Twiglets1 · 31/05/2026 18:19

The thing is though, Hamas as the government in charge were supposed to have made the lives of civilian Palestinians better. They received a lot of money to do so but did not spend it on anything to benefit civilians. Too obsessed with their dream of eradicating Israel.

What have they achieved in their nearly 20 years in power?

"What have they achieved in their nearly 20 years in power?"

They have achieved nothing good and brought a conflict to the door of Gazans. In a league table of governments, they'd be at the bottom.

OP posts:
SisterTeatime · 31/05/2026 18:41

Unfortunately, there is a lot of evidence that ordinary people in Gaza are at risk from Hamas. Theft of aid, exchanging aid for sex (ie rape), beatings, summary executions, and much more.

It is hard to know how much resistance to Hamas there might be from ordinary people in Gaza, for obvious reasons. It is disingenuous to talk about Hamas as part of society in the same way as a democratic government.

It must also be very difficult to know how much true support there is for Hamas. But they are certainly very embedded in society and use a number of levers to retain and consolidate power.

I do think that much discussion infantilises people in Gaza as passive victims of Israel alone, which is not helpful. I would say they are very much oppressed by Hamas, whose rule has made things inestimably worse for them. And I think the fact that neighbouring countries don’t want refugees speaks volumes about the embedded nature of the terrorist Islamist faction in the population.

SharonEllis · 31/05/2026 18:43

RedTagAlan · 31/05/2026 09:56

Thanks for the clip.

As I suspected, there is nothing there that is not the norm in any society. That is that government is embedded. It pretty much as to be, by definition.

It is the exact same as how the Israeli government is embedded into Israeli society.

You cant be serious.

What is it about Hamas in Gaza that bears any resemblance to 'any society'. Lets take Israel or the UK.

You say yourself that Gaza is governed as a one party authoritarian entity. There are typically at least 10 parties in the knesset at any one time and slightly fewer usually in the UK parliament. Tell again about the equivalent democratic institutions in Gaza?

The idea that the government here controls the NHS or schools like Hamas controls every aspect of people's lives is complete nonsense. The government is elected on a mandate to deliver its manifesto. It has to work with the civil service, the professions and the unions.

Its completely staggering that you can even try to suggest there is any comparison.

'The report alleges that Hamas had stockpiled more than $700 million in cash in underground hideouts prior to Oct. 7. These funds are reportedly still being distributed in secret, with Hamas operatives meeting briefly—sometimes over tea—to hand over envelopes containing partial salaries.' Please do share the equivalent scenario.

And if you step out of line in Gaza Hamas will carry out all sort of summary punishments on you or your family. Whereas in the UK and Israel we have separation of powers and the rule of law, however vulnerable and imperfect they may at times be.

Unbelievable.

localnotail · 31/05/2026 19:56

likelysuspect · 31/05/2026 16:51

Im not sure the countries around do support Hamas or at least the policies, as others have said, a tense peace has since developed over decades with Israel and the ME in general (give or take) and their overt policies are in opposition to what Hamas declare

Why would it be anything to do with them any more than its to do with any other country? Why would they take Gazan's in any more than any other country?

The answer to your question about why the Muslim states shut their doors on Gazans is exactly that. They've worked hard for this uneasy peace, they're not about to shit on their own doorstep with taking in people who could upset that.

One of the main reasons ME countries (even the ones that dont agree with Hamas ideology) are not being critical of them is because of the support they feel they have to show for fellow Muslims (as well as dislike of Jews). Its sort of like "well, they are awful but they do have a point".

But they are, in my view, much more responsible as they are in the immediate proximity, they share a lot of culture, religion and history with both Israel and Gaza (much more then any Western country ever would) and should be much more proactive in sorting this shit situation out. Instead of being passive/ attacking Israel. Also, a lot of them dont agree with Israel even existing, so this does not help thing at all.

localnotail · 31/05/2026 20:00

TomeTome · 31/05/2026 17:50

I wonder who is the bigger threat to the average civilian Palestinian, IDF or Hamas? It’s not really a sensible question though is it because it is the IDF and Israel who imprison and abuse tens of thousands of Palestinians, it is the IDF and Israel who bomb neighbourhood after neighbourhood. It isn’t really hard to see why you would prefer your own less dangerous government.

Its a simplistic view. Short term, yes - Israel. But long term? Who stops Palestinians to progress from being a medieval Islamist dictatorship to anything resembling a country people would want to live in? Deffo not Israel/.

likelysuspect · 31/05/2026 20:04

localnotail · 31/05/2026 19:56

One of the main reasons ME countries (even the ones that dont agree with Hamas ideology) are not being critical of them is because of the support they feel they have to show for fellow Muslims (as well as dislike of Jews). Its sort of like "well, they are awful but they do have a point".

But they are, in my view, much more responsible as they are in the immediate proximity, they share a lot of culture, religion and history with both Israel and Gaza (much more then any Western country ever would) and should be much more proactive in sorting this shit situation out. Instead of being passive/ attacking Israel. Also, a lot of them dont agree with Israel even existing, so this does not help thing at all.

I get some of those points but isnt that fairly akin to the UK expecting to agree with everything a Western power does or take in Western refugees if something happened? Say it was the US, we are fundamentally different to America, in so many ways, despite this outwardly similarity (language, history, sort of religion) and our pretend 'special realtionship'

But we would be shitting on our own doorstep to get too close to them, well any more close than we already are, which is too close in my view. But then we cant overtly disagree with them either because of their power.

MarmaladeorJam · 31/05/2026 20:33

Ihatetomatoes · 31/05/2026 09:51

Deeply embedded in the fabric of Gazan society, Hamas has adapted financially and militarily to endure after the assassination of top leaders

Nearly two years after Israel launched a war aimed at dismantling Hamas following the Oct. 7 attacks, the movement remains the dominant force in Gaza. Despite the devastation of infrastructure, the assassination of top leaders, and a crippling blockade, Hamas continues to govern, fight, and even pay salaries.

Analysts say this endurance is not a coincidence. It’s the result of an organization that has embedded itself deeply into the fabric of Gaza’s society, adapted militarily, and evolved its financial tactics to survive one of the most intense conflicts in the region’s modern history.

Hamas is not just a military wing or a political party,” said Dr. Michael Milshtein, head of the Palestinian Studies Forum at the Moshe Dayan Center. “It’s something much broader—deeply rooted in Palestinian society. Over the past 20 years, they’ve built strong connections through education, charity, mosques, youth clubs, and women’s associations.”

Milshtein argues that the movement’s social infrastructure is a major reason it continues to enjoy support, even after what he estimates to be the loss of 25,000 to 27,000 members, many from its military wing.

“Their organizational DNA is built on resilience and redundancy,” he explained. “They’ve suffered enormous losses, but they have thousands of operatives and supporters ready to step in. They’re still the dominant power in Gaza.”

Ihsan Ataya, head of the Arab and International Relations Department for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, sees that strength coming from both ideological commitment and operational structure.

“Hamas has managed to maintain political control under a genocidal war and starvation campaign,” Ataya told The Media Line. “They operate with a tightly structured organization and strong security apparatus that helps maintain internal order—even under the most extreme conditions.”

Militarily, Hamas has shifted tactics. Gone are the battalions and brigades of previous wars. Instead, the group now relies on small, mobile units conducting guerrilla warfare inside Gaza’s urban ruins.

Since mid-2024, they adopted a doctrine of attrition,” Milshtein said. “It’s no longer about battalions—now it’s cells of three, five, seven fighters at most, carrying out ambushes and urban attacks.”

The Media Line
Ataya agreed that Hamas field commanders continue to play a vital role, guiding attacks under Israel’s overwhelming air and ground presence.

“Military operations remain intense and coordinated,” he said. “Despite Israeli air dominance, fighters plant explosives, prepare ambushes, and maintain tactical communication between units. These aren’t isolated acts—there’s still a level of organization behind them.”

Both experts note that Hamas’s underground tunnel network remains central to its resilience, enabling the movement of fighters, weapons, and even leadership figures across vast stretches of Gaza.

Perhaps most surprisingly, Hamas continues to pay its members—albeit in creative ways. Salaries aren’t what they once were, and cash is no longer the only currency.

Payment isn’t just in shekels anymore,” Milshtein said. “Hamas distributes food boxes, water, and humanitarian supplies as salary substitutes. This assistance, often looted or diverted from international aid, replaces cash.”

Ataya adds that even amid financial siege, the movement finds ways to ensure a degree of compensation for its rank and file.

“They’ve managed to continue paying salaries and providing services, even while Gaza lies in ruins,” he said. “That frustrates the Israeli leadership and fuels the continued violence aimed at pressuring them to surrender.”

A recent BBC investigation sheds further light on these financial tactics. The report alleges that Hamas had stockpiled more than $700 million in cash in underground hideouts prior to Oct. 7. These funds are reportedly still being distributed in secret, with Hamas operatives meeting briefly—sometimes over tea—to hand over envelopes containing partial salaries.

“There’s no question Hamas is under financial strain,” Milshtein said. “But they’ve always been adaptive. Whether it’s drones, smuggling routes through Bedouin networks or backchannels in Rafah—they find ways to move money.”

One of the reasons Hamas remains so cohesive is its unified command structure. Contrary to portrayals of deep division between its Gaza-based leadership and exiled political bureau, both Ataya and Milshtein emphasize tight coordination

There's more, its a long article

Basically their choice is:

Be ruled by a nation that does not fire it's Foreign Minister for calling you human animals, a nation that kills approximately 1,000 of you a year but escalates that to 70,000 in revenge attacks for the murder of 1,700, holds 10,000 or so of you in prison, controls who goes in and who comes out of the strip etc OR

or be ruled by a group that were created by that power, are hated internationally (and probably domestically), but they manage to get some food in, some medicines, and maybe your brother's friend might know someone who knows someone...

Basically - would you prefer to be ruled by your own bastards or foreign bastards?

What would you choose OP?

Palestinian people are caught in the middle of bullshit stories like this.

localnotail · 31/05/2026 20:34

likelysuspect · 31/05/2026 20:04

I get some of those points but isnt that fairly akin to the UK expecting to agree with everything a Western power does or take in Western refugees if something happened? Say it was the US, we are fundamentally different to America, in so many ways, despite this outwardly similarity (language, history, sort of religion) and our pretend 'special realtionship'

But we would be shitting on our own doorstep to get too close to them, well any more close than we already are, which is too close in my view. But then we cant overtly disagree with them either because of their power.

I'm not saying they have to agree - its more like they are better placed to facilitate change.

localnotail · 31/05/2026 20:36

MarmaladeorJam · 31/05/2026 20:33

Basically their choice is:

Be ruled by a nation that does not fire it's Foreign Minister for calling you human animals, a nation that kills approximately 1,000 of you a year but escalates that to 70,000 in revenge attacks for the murder of 1,700, holds 10,000 or so of you in prison, controls who goes in and who comes out of the strip etc OR

or be ruled by a group that were created by that power, are hated internationally (and probably domestically), but they manage to get some food in, some medicines, and maybe your brother's friend might know someone who knows someone...

Basically - would you prefer to be ruled by your own bastards or foreign bastards?

What would you choose OP?

Palestinian people are caught in the middle of bullshit stories like this.

This is a completely false dichotomy. They can totally choose to have their own Gaza-born leaders who are not medieval animals.

Leorag · 31/05/2026 20:37

likelysuspect · 31/05/2026 20:04

I get some of those points but isnt that fairly akin to the UK expecting to agree with everything a Western power does or take in Western refugees if something happened? Say it was the US, we are fundamentally different to America, in so many ways, despite this outwardly similarity (language, history, sort of religion) and our pretend 'special realtionship'

But we would be shitting on our own doorstep to get too close to them, well any more close than we already are, which is too close in my view. But then we cant overtly disagree with them either because of their power.

We have taken a lot of Ukrainian refugees as they're culturally quite similar and assimilate easily.

Twiglets1 · 31/05/2026 20:41

MarmaladeorJam · 31/05/2026 20:33

Basically their choice is:

Be ruled by a nation that does not fire it's Foreign Minister for calling you human animals, a nation that kills approximately 1,000 of you a year but escalates that to 70,000 in revenge attacks for the murder of 1,700, holds 10,000 or so of you in prison, controls who goes in and who comes out of the strip etc OR

or be ruled by a group that were created by that power, are hated internationally (and probably domestically), but they manage to get some food in, some medicines, and maybe your brother's friend might know someone who knows someone...

Basically - would you prefer to be ruled by your own bastards or foreign bastards?

What would you choose OP?

Palestinian people are caught in the middle of bullshit stories like this.

It's not like Palestinian people have any choice at all in reality though do they?

They can't choose to get rid of Hamas electorally and the situation with Israel (even outside of war time) is not going to improve while Hamas are there.

So nothing will get better while Hamas are there and they can't get rid of Hamas.

MarmaladeorJam · 31/05/2026 20:43

Ihatetomatoes · 31/05/2026 09:58

"Ultimately, Hamas’s strategy now rests on outlasting the enemy. It is not about swift military victory but about eroding Israel’s stamina and global legitimacy.

“Hamas is betting on attrition,” Milshtein said. “They want to raise the cost—militarily, economically, and politically—until Israel can no longer sustain the war. It’s a long game.”

"Ultimately, Hamas’s strategy now rests on outlasting the enemy. It is not about swift military victory but about eroding Israel’s stamina and global legitimacy.

Pretty much the same as Israeli strategy but they have the added bonus of a land grab?

They want to raise the cost—militarily, economically, and politically—until Israel can no longer sustain the war. It’s a long game.”

Again - Israels policy, but without the land grab...

localnotail · 31/05/2026 20:45

MarmaladeorJam · 31/05/2026 20:43

"Ultimately, Hamas’s strategy now rests on outlasting the enemy. It is not about swift military victory but about eroding Israel’s stamina and global legitimacy.

Pretty much the same as Israeli strategy but they have the added bonus of a land grab?

They want to raise the cost—militarily, economically, and politically—until Israel can no longer sustain the war. It’s a long game.”

Again - Israels policy, but without the land grab...

Have you noticed how over the years since it came to existence Israel became more and more like its neighbours, but with added bonus of having more money and support from the West? I wonder why that is. Could it be because it was constantly attacked?

MarmaladeorJam · 31/05/2026 20:53

Twiglets1 · 31/05/2026 10:26

This being the case though, which countries or companies will ever invest in the reconstruction of Gaza?

I doubt any will for as long as Hamas are embedded in Gaza both politically and militarily.

You are worried about the poor Gazan's now?

likelysuspect · 31/05/2026 20:58

localnotail · 31/05/2026 20:36

This is a completely false dichotomy. They can totally choose to have their own Gaza-born leaders who are not medieval animals.

Are there any voices at the moment who are challenging the hierarchy or leaders in Hamas?

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