Concerns about Israeli plans for Gaza and Palestinian displacement

[JadeHare]

https://www.cnn.com/2026/05/28/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-military-70-percent-gaza-intl

Doesn’t look like there will be much land left for the Palestinians.

And in other news, from the Guardian:

“Israel’s defence minister has said he is committed to the ethnic cleansing of Gaza through large-scale migration of Palestinians as part of Israel’s long-term plans for the territory.
Israel Katz said the government would implement a plan for large numbers of Palestinians to leave Gaza “at the right time and in the right manner”, in a statement on Wednesday marking the targeted killing of Mohammed Odeh, Hamas’s most recent military commander.
Pushing for mass departures violates Donald Trump’s ceasefire plan for Gaza, which Israel signed last year. The second point of the plan states: “Gaza will be redeveloped for the benefit of the people of Gaza, who have suffered more than enough.”
Israel’s government has promoted the prospect of Gaza without Palestinians since Trump suggested early last year that hundreds of thousands of people should leave to “clean out” the strip for reconstruction.
Last year Israel set up a bureau for “voluntary emigration” and eased travel restrictions for Palestinians who wanted to make a one-way journey out of the strip.
The forced transfer of civilian populations is a war crime and a crime against humanity. Israeli officials, including Katz, use the term “voluntary migration” to describe their ”

Excerpt From
“Israel’s defence minister says large-scale Palestinian migration from Gaza will go ahead”
Emma Graham-Harrison
The Guardian
https://apple.news/AnnlpJqlOTdW5cUbA9NEe1Q
This material may be protected by copyright.

Cambodia, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Burma, Rwanda, the Holocaust...

And yet the Palestian 'resistance' refuses to surrender or disarm and a large proportion of Gazans, and the majority of their Western supporters, seem to support this.

Even the apparently non-hostile country next door, with a border just 7 miles from Gaza City, refuses to offer safe passage for refugees.

It is all rather baffling!

Actually it isn't. Hamas disarming will have absolutely no consequence. Egypt know exactly what the plan is. They're not refusing refugees because they are heartless. They know it would be a one way journey for the Gazans and why the hell should they be complicit in ethnic cleansing let alone having to handle 2 million refugees.

I actually think some people have no idea of history when ridiculous claims are made.

I never realised there was a measure of inhumanity. Does it give justification! Well what we're doing is not as bad as Pol Pot so it's okay. We didn't murder as many children as Bagosora so we're not that bad. The rapes in Nanking were way worse than what we've done so we're okay. So what? Is UltraCynica wrong to be horrified about the ongoing genocide against the Gazan population and the fact that our BB government representatives are supporting it?

There isn't. There are lots of humanitarian crises occurring in the world. Its awful. Some are covered more than others, some gain lots of attention and some don't. The human suffering for all is dreadful.

However, many people have lots going on in their immediate world, which takes up their time and focus. Doesn't mean they don't care. There is little they can do. When their own government's do little to assist their own people or even carry out acts that put their own people in harms way, why is it the responsibility of people thousands of miles away to do more.

There's being horrified about what's happening in Gaza, and then there's claiming it's literally the worth thing that has ever happened.

Agree
Its not a competition
and a worse evil does not make another less appalling

In terms of whether we should speak out wherever evil is occurring… Of course we should

From the Wall Street Journal:

“A Board of Peace official said that the humanitarian part of the peace process isn’t dependent on the disarmament of Hamas, but would be accelerated by it.
Meanwhile, conditions in Gaza are deteriorating; the population is crammed into a diminishing area as Israel expands its control in the enclave, where many live in bombed-out buildings and rodent-infested tent encampments.”

Excerpt From
“Trump Wanted 20,000 Peacekeeping Troops in Gaza. He Is Starting With 10 to 20.”
Feliz Solomon
The Wall Street Journal
https://apple.news/AUC8bZMmXT5Cbrkmz1jyNmA
This material may be protected by copyright.

They're not wrong to be horrified. And as Prune says- just because there are or have been bigger wrongs in the world doesn't make this particular wrong any less appalling.

The point some are trying to make is that calling what Israel is doing the sickest thing any humans have ever done strongly implies that you believe the Israelis perpetuating that wrong are the sickest people on Earth. And when its categorically untrue that its the sickest thing anyone's ever done ever ever ever, yet you persist in saying it is- well that starts to look like exceptionalism. Overly demonizing one group. Which is racism.

I think Hamas is the absolute worst thing to happen to Gazans ever. I could back up that argument. You could disagree and I'm sure you'd have many facts in your argument.
But if I extrapolated that to- Palestinians are the most sick people ever to exist in the world then I'd be factually incorrect. October 7 was medieval in it's treatment of uninvolved civilians, yes, but the same is happening in many other places and much much worse in some and unimaginably worse throughout human history.
Its the exceptionalism where the exceptionalism is factually incorrect that is what we object to.

First off we have no idea what UltraCynicas involvement is in this or if they have an emotional attachment. If you ask a Jewish person what the worst genocide was, they would more than likely say the holocaust but if you ask a Tutsi, they will say it was the Rwanda Genocide. It is a totally subjective question. How would you even define it? The scale? The brutality? The duration? The number of women and children killed?

The thing is, however, this genocide has two unique features which the others didn’t and they have evoked the overwhelming emotional response we see around the world. The first is that this genocide, from the beginning, despite the best efforts of the Israeli government to stop it, has been live streamed around the world in almost real time. People aren’t finding out about the scale and brutality after the event as they did with the others. They see it unfolding in front of their eyes. After the liberation of the holocaust camps and the cameras went in, people were absolutely horrified and in shock. They, quite rightly, felt an overwhelming sense of guilt that the world allowed it to happen, which brings me on to the other unique feature of this genocide and which people find the most galling.

In all the other genocides that have occurred, the perpetrators were internationally condemned and most of them punished by international courts. What people find so infuriating here though is our Western governments, particularly the US, are not only not condemning it, but they are also actively supporting it. They justify their complacency/support by trying to say it is about Israel’s security or self defense. Very few people believe this now and I believe even Israeli supporters who parrot this justification know it is not true. There is an overwhelming opinion that our politicians are either bought or blackmailed.

Yes, there are other awful things happening in the world and you could argue till you’re blue in the face about which is the worst. When you talk about exceptionalism, I believe it is these two features that do make it exceptional. I do not accept that it is antisemitism or racism, rather it is the fact that we can see, in real time, our own governments, allowing a genocide to unfold.

@dairydebris @Notmycircusnotmyotter @Ihatetomatoes

I am tagging others that have had a similar response to my post as I wanted to be clear that I am in no way implicating Israeli civilians in this genocide. The Gazan genocide is the product of Netanyahu's government and the IDF.

It’s not the extremity of violence, or the number of civilians murdered I am referring to when I say this is the sickest thing the human race has ever done.
It is the complicity of the Western governments, mainly the UK and the USA in face of the overwhelming evidence. They are turning a blind eye, they are actively supporting by supplying arms. Amazon and Google are supplying AI support to the IDF in the form of Project Nimbus.

I wanted to point out the differences between the Gazan genocide and the other atrocities highlighted by posters:

The full extent of the massive scale of the Holocaust was not fully realised until camps were liberated in 1945. Yes, Russian and Western government knew that Hitler was carrying out atrocities against the Jews about a year after Hitler started doing it, but there was neither the on the ground journalist coverage nor the live streamed doctors testimonies that we have today. We certainly weren’t supporting Hitler or supplying arms or intelligence services. We were already in a war with Hitler, we were not supporting his genocide.

The Cambodian Genocide was carried out by a brutal dictator - not a democratically elected government back and supported by the UK and the USA.

The Rwandan Genocide was rapid. It took place in 100 days - appalling extreme violence. It was not televised as far as I am aware and there was very little time for Western nations to respond or intervene in any effective way.

Srebrenika was even more rapid - the genocide took 2 weeks. Yes Western governments could have done more to intervene or even prevent it happening. But they didn’t sit back and watch it happening over the course of 32 months like Western governments are doing now with the genocide in Gaza.

The Atlantic Slave Trade was of course the racist oppression and exploitation of people on an international scale - completely condemned now, rightly so, and a shameful episode in human history.

The difference now in Gaza is - we are openly allowing this to happen. With our eyes wide open and with all the testimonies, eye witnesses and actual live footage in real time. We KNOW babies and children have been one of the main targets of the IDF - English doctors that have been working there are telling us this.

The Israeli government are a democratically elected government with major support from Western governments. This is not the same as seeing genocide committed by unelected extremists or dictators.
The Israeli government have already prospected and started preparing the land inside Gaza for own real estate development. Land soaked in the blood of innocent children and civilians. The UK government is currently allowing Israeli real estate events to sell Palestinian land in London.

The West watching this happen and doing nothing, also supporting with arms and AI is truly the most criminal thing the human race has ever done.

What's with all the 'we' stuff. We didn't start the war, we didn't fight back, we didn't do all the various things claimed. A full investigation is important but 'we' doesn't work. You can blame yourself if you wish but not tell others 'we' did it.

For the purpose of this reply I'm staying away from which is the worst 'genocide / war' because it seems self evident to me that objectively speaking many millions of deaths is worse than many thousands of deaths.

You're saying that there are 2 features that make this slaughter exceptional. 1) the fact that it's being live streamed so we all know about it and yet it is still going ahead. And 2) That international governments know about it and are supporting it. I hope I have understood your points correctly- please let me know if I haven't.

My response is-
There are many genocide events that we knew about at the time and Western governments did absolutely nothing about. Rwanda. The UN delegation to Rwanda under Romeo Dallaire absolutely knew about the slaughter. They saw the roadblocks manned by the machete armed militia. Romeo warned everyone. And still his delegation was pulled out and Rwandans were left to it. It was on the news. Lots of people from my generation remember this. Rwandans even begged the US to just simply block the radio transmissions that were broadcasting the names of Tutsi who were to be killed. The Americans refused even though they had the technology to do it.
Another notable example is the Burmese Rohingya situation. Facebook was used as the main mouthpiece for the military and the nationalists to encourage the violence against the Rohingya. Facebook were repeatedly asked to block these communications but did not. Many people died and many watched and did nothing.
In the case of Srebrenica, the war went on for years before that particular camp incident. Many survivors shared their stories. Europe knew for 4 years what was happening.

In fact one of the main defining features of past genocides has been governments refusing to act unless its in their own national interests. Even when its been absolutely obvious that a genocide is taking place.
If you want to read more about specifically how governments have ignored genocides then I recommend 'America and the Age of Genocide' by Samantha Power.

Further, just the fact that the slaughter in Gaza has been live streamed does not in fact make the slaughter itself exceptional. It makes the broadcast exceptional. I 100% promise you had the people of Rwanda filmed and posted themselves being hunted down on foot by their neighbors only to be cut to pieces by a machete then it would have looked... just as exceptional as what's happening in Gaza. I promise you had those father's forced to bite their own sons genitals off in Bosnia filmed what had happened it would have looked exceptional. Humans are almost unimaginably cruel.

This mainly refers to your first point but its already way too long so I'll do the second another time.

I sadly remember the events you mention. Humans can be very cruel

I do want to also just point out that in my long response above I've referred to slaughters that I feel were genocide to rebut the position that this 'genocide' is exceptional. I'm only trying to point out that even if the slaughter is Gaza was a genocide it still wouldn't be exceptional. I know this seems like I'm allowing it to be a genocide- I'm not but I don't want to argue that here at this point. I don't think it is but neither I nor anyone here decides that. Its for the ICJ. I'm only arguing against the proposition that this slaughter is exceptional because in my view its absolutely not exceptional. It's the human race doing as it always does. I'm trying to make the point that Gaza is not exceptional, because people keep insisting it is- for example- the sickest thing humans have ever done to each other. It's not exceptional.

It's a good point @dairydebris (as are your other points).

Rather than arguing over whether it is a war or a genocide which always sends us down an angry path, I wish we could all just agree to call it a war/genocide.

Like you, I want to see the ICJ ruling which may take years. But would be perfectly happy to call it a war/genocide for the purposes of these threads if others would agree.

I don't think anyone on here has the right to decide the words others use

( as long as not racist etc )
I don’t always agree with how people phrase things

I’m not Starmer and I’m not Big brother
I’m happy to allow free speech to flow.

No of course they don't.

It's a sensitive subject. Just because it's a change that I think might lead to fewer arguments, I understand too that we are all entitled to use the words we want.

I probably didn't make myself clear enough in my meaning.

When I used 'we' in that example, I didn't mean you or me specifically. I was using it as a 'generic we' meaning people in general or a hypothetical third party. I thought that was perfectly clear.

You are right.
SM has not only made us aware of the detailed atrocities perpetrated on the ground, but the ongoing enablement from our governments and the attempted justifications of many ordinary people. It is more than just a failure to act.

I am no historian but I cannot see how there has been this breadth of purpose to enable other genocides.

I can clearly remember seeing the footage from Rwanda on the news. I can remember the collective shock around me. In my world then, there were no attempts to justify the slaughter. Also I remember awful scenes from Bosnia and the realisation that the UK had failed in its duty to prevent both genocides and afterwards saying never again - again.

During televised footage of the slaughter then, were the people of the UK, fully aware of the facts, on chat forums searching for equivalents to argue that those genocides, happening right then, were not ‘exceptional’ ?

The genocidal plans for Palestinians have been written in newspapers and expounded on television.

State backed military and vocal enforcement from the West for an openly declared intention of ethnic cleansing, in daily breach of international law is unprecedented and it is deeply alarming.

Seems we have learnt nothing.

So is what you're saying that the slaughter isnt excecptional but the backing of western governments is exceptional?

"Further, just the fact that the slaughter in Gaza has been live streamed does not in fact make the slaughter itself exceptional. It makes the broadcast exceptional." - I'm saying this genocide is exceptional primarily because of the broadcast. You say that people knew about the other genocides. Some people did. I have no doubt that you and I would have as we are interested and concerned about both domestic and international affairs but I would bet that the majority of the world population know very little about it. I know of people who had heard about a genocide in Rwanda but only really learnt anything about it from the film Hotel Rwanda. If you ask the majority of people about RTLM aka Radio Machete or who Bagosora was, they wouldn't have a clue. The same goes for the other genocides. If it hadn't been for the film the Killing Fields, I bet most people wouldn't have a clue who Pol Pot was. I guarantee that without the live streaming from Gaza, there wouldn't be anywhere near the emotional response to the genocide in Gaza because people just wouldn't know about it. The technology just wasn't around then. That's what I mean that this genocide is exceptional or unique to the others.

You also mention the lack of action from Western governments to do something about them. You are right. Clinton had to apologise after the Rwandan genocide for not doing anything and only then acknowledged it as a genocide. Although they did eventually intervene militarily in Bosnia, it was way too slow and only came about after the Srebrenica genocide had happened. I could go on about all the other genocides but you get the idea. The difference with the Gaza genocide is that this time our Western governments are not simply vacillating but are actively providing military and diplomatic support. They are constantly making excuses for Israel instead of, at the very least, calling it out and ending support.

Yes the point that a lot of people miss (or choose to ignore) is that as @Mantanora points out the UK Government (along obviously with US and others) have actively supported this genocide by providing practical support for it! That’s why they can’t call it what it is, because they know they will be implicated in supporting war crimes. It’s utterly shameful.

Sorry Twiglets1. In my mind and the minds of many others, this is a genocide. I believe the 'intent' is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and thereby erase them as a people. That is literally the definition of genocide. I also don't see this as a war in way whatsoever. Obviously until the ICJ officially rules on it, it is just an opinion but, as I said, I have no doubt in my mind.