Is the penny finally starting to drop about anti semitism and hate marches?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/04/starmer-c al l-society-response-rising-antisemitism

I think we are now seeing the cumulative impact of the anti senitism that has built up over the last 3 years where there has been a permissive environment with politicians hesitant to intervene in events in the streets that have incubated anti Jew sentiment.

All political parties apart from the hate apologist Greens are now waking up to the fact we need better policing and perhaps legislation. I for one will acting a vote for a party that recognises hate marches for what they are and also willing to tackle the vile posts appearing on social media (and Labour have reacted too late too little). Enough is enough for a Jewish community that lives in perpetual fear.

What do you mean it should be investigated? Who is going to investigate a person with dual citizenship returning to their other country to help them fight in a war?

You coming on to a thread about antisemitism talking about a relatively small number of duel nationals serving in the army they have the nationality of and pretending that it's relevant because they are (apparently) Jewish suggest there can't be.

Seriously, what in the name of fuck does an Israeli soldier living next to someone have to do with antisemitism in the UK?

Thank you - so strange that posters haven’t read the actual post with link and excerpts from a piece entitled What do British Jews think about Israel and why does this matter.

Discusses anti semitism and how community conversations can counter it.

Last line reads:

Governments have sought to use Jews as an alibi to explain their continued support for Israel through framing every criticism of Israel as antisemitic or implying that this is the way that Jews think. Having a broad movement on the issue that includes diaspora Jews can go some way to negating this argument and keeping my community safe from the violence encouraged by the belief that British Jews are an extended arm of the Israeli government.

Seems some would prefer to ignore this completely. If we’re going to discuss the marches, it’s important to know why people feel impassioned to go on them rather than making assumptions.

Sounds like they would be Israeli citizens, not British (citizen) Jews?
I can’t see the IDF taking a non-Israeli volunteer.

You can through the Mahal program join the IDF as a non Israeli citizen.(As long as you are Jewish/have Jewish parents)

But in this case they were Israelis.

"The data showed that 1686 soldiers were British-Israelis and a further 383 had British, Israeli and another nationality."

From the link above.

Exactly I couldn’t agree more !!

Governments have sought to use Jews as an alibi to explain their continued support for Israel through framing every criticism of Israel as antisemitic

Well, this isn't true, is it?

I googled this

‘Several countries have been criticised for conflating legitimate criticism of Israel with antisemitism to defend Israeli policies. Germany, the UK, France, and the US frequently face this criticism, often using the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition to shield Israel. 1, , 4, 5]

Germany: The government treats Israel's security as Staatsraison (reason of state), leading officials to frequently label anti-Israel sentiment as hate speech.

United Kingdom: Parliamentary and human rights groups have accused the government of weaponizing accusations of antisemitism to deflect criticism of Israeli military actions.

United States: The widespread codification of anti-bias policies has sparked major domestic debates over free speech. Critics argue this is a deliberate tactic by Israel's international allies to suppress debate’

Then another by copying the piece you quoted we get this

‘ Human rights experts, political analysts, and scholars argue that conflating valid criticism of Israeli policy with antisemitism weaponises the concept of bigotry. This tactic aims to silence human rights advocates and deflect accountability for foreign policy decisions under the guise of anti-racism. 1, 2,

The article in the Observer below
Entitled
‘ Reframing criticism of Israel as antisemitism fails Jews as much as Palestinians
The sense of what defines anti-Jewish bigotry has changed radically since the 70s’

The first para

’Anti-Zionism is one of the modern forms of antisemitism,” said the French president, Emmanuel Macron, in 2019, for which claim he won considerable praise from Jewish groups and Israeli leaders. Last month Charles Kushner, the US ambassador to France, echoed the sentiment (“In today’s world, anti-Zionism is antisemitism – plain and simple”) in an open letter to Macron’.

We can now see why the previous response to Macrons was made and perhaps why there is a lot of debate on the subject.
ie
some say yes
some say no

^Governments have sought to use Jews as an alibi to explain their continued support for Israel through framing every criticism of Israel as antisemitic^

I mean, we know that the UK government has itself criticised Israel for its actions. We know that it has stopped selling arms to Israel. We know that it hasn't joined in strikes against Iran

and https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2026/04/15/keir-starmer-leaves-no-room-for-interpretation-in-latest-criticism-of-israel/

And upthread someone was talking about how many countries had condemned Ben-Gvir's treatment of the flotilla.

I also agree with Macron that anti-Zionism is often thinly disguised antisemitism.

is this really what you have taken away from @Ellen2shoes's post and the article she linked to?! You haven't read it have you.
It isn't simple. That's the whole point! Read the article and @Stirabout's post a few pages back and try to understand the situation a little more deeply.

‘We know that the UK government has stopped selling arms to Israel’

But they haven’t.

https://www.oxfam.org.uk/get-involved/campaign-with-oxfam/gaza-israel-crisis-sign-petition-call-for-ceasefire-now/does-the-uk-sell-arms-to-israel/

‘The UK is supplying millions of pounds worth of arms to Israel. This makes it complicit in the killing of civilians taking place every day across the occupied Palestinian territory.
Last updated: 20 February 2026
British arms sales to Israel
Since 2015, the UK has licensed at least £500 million worth of military exports to Israel.
There are also a number of additional open licences in place that the government does not publicly report on, so the figure is likely to be much higher.
Even though the government has suspended a small number of arms licences, there are still hundreds remaining.
The UK must not continue to be complicit in Israel’s illegal war.’

BBC Verify (July 2025) makes the point that the UK is not one of Israel's main suppliers of arms - that would be the US followed by Germany and Italy.

They say that much of the attention around the UK's support for Israel has focussed on parts made in Britain for the F-35 jet, which has been used extensively by Israel to strike Gaza.

The UK supplies between 13-15% of the components used in the jet, including ejector seats, rear fuselage, active interceptor systems, targeting lasers and weapon release cables. However, some parts are not included on the Israeli version of the jet.

After the Labour Party came to power last year, it suspended 30 out of 350 arms export licences, affecting equipment such as parts for fighter jets, helicopters and drones.

Any UK company that wants to sell arms abroad must apply for a licence, and the government said at the time that there was a "clear risk" the equipment could be used to commit serious violations of international law.

But crucially, parts for the F-35 were not included in the export ban. The government said it could not prevent Israel obtaining these components as they are sent to manufacturing centres abroad as part of a global programme - not directly to Israel.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz09k48z9v0o

Extremely interesting to compare the Oxfam article and the BBC Verify one.

In what way? They say pretty much the same thing except that the bbc one is from July 2025 and Oxfam is Feb 2026.

Uk is still selling arms to Israel.

The Oxfam one, which is very clearly trying to give the impression that the UK is selling lots of arms to Israel starts:

"DOES THE UK SELL ARMS TO ISRAEL?
The UK is supplying millions of pounds worth of arms to Israel."

Then it clarifies "Since 2015, the UK has licensed at least £500 million worth of military exports to Israel"

Not arms but military exports.

However it doesn't clarify how many of those £500 million have been licensed since the restrictions on exports were imposed, which seems quite important if I want to sign a petition about it. And £500 million over 11 years isn't actually that much.

Then Oxfam says:
Does the UK sell F-35 fighter jets to Israel?
The UK provides approximately 15% of the components in the F-35 fighter jets

So no, no it's not. Also BBC Verify says "The UK supplies between 13-15% of the components used in the jet, including ejector seats, rear fuselage, active interceptor systems, targeting lasers and weapon release cables. However, some parts are not included on the Israeli version of the jet. So a lower percentage than specified by Oxfam

Oxfam: The UK produces components for Israeli armed and surveillance drones.
BBC Verify: After the Labour Party came to power last year, it suspended 30 out of 350 arms export licences, affecting equipment such as parts for fighter jets, helicopters and drones.

Oxfam: The UK military provides intelligence from spy flights over Gaza and the West Bank to enable Israeli military operations

BBC Verify: "In an interview on Monday, Lammy insisted that the RAF flights over Gaza have not led to the sharing of any military intelligence with the IDF.
"It would be quite wrong for the British government to assist in the prosecution of this war in Gaza," the foreign secretary said. "We are not doing that." In 2023 the UK acknowledged that some of its "unarmed" drones circling over the strip were aiding in the search for Israeli hostages taken by Hamas during the 7 October attacks. There are 50 people still held by Hamas, with 20 believed to be alive. Armed Forces Minister Luke Pollard reaffirmed that stance in April 2025, telling MPs that UK drone flights over Gaza were being conducted with the "sole purpose of locating hostages"

Oxfam: The UK also trains Israeli military personnel in Britain, but the government keeps details of these missions secret.

BBC Verify: Lord Coaker - a minister of state at the UK MoD - said in April that "fewer than 10" IDF personnel have been trained on non-combat military academic courses in the UK every year since 2020.

If you think they're saying pretty much the same thing then you're not paying attention?

It's crazy that a couple of posters are still desperately trying to prove that the UK only sells a few arms to Israel rather than lots and lots or arms. That this is the main focus of their posts beggars belief. A bit like the response to the vicious attacks on those on the flotillas 'well they are left wing idiots, no one wants them involved....'

It it undoubtedly true that the UK and other European governments, and clearly the US government have continued to support Israel all these decades. Even if you ignore all the historical support, the ongoing supply of weapons, the use of air bases recently, the general political response has been absolutely pro Israel and absolutely anti Iran. There was even all round criticism of Iran at the UN when they retaliated after being attacked by Israel and the US on 28th February 2026, an attack which led to the murder of their supreme leader. There was no criticism of Israel and the US for starting a war. The Western governments have essentially turned a blind eye to the genocide that Israel is committing in Gaza their ongoing and deliberate targetting of civilians in Lebanon and the deliberate murders of medical crews and journalists. Israel has attacked multiple countries in the region. Despite all of this, they are very clearly pro Israel and very clearly anti Iran. Apart from the fact that this is clearly morally reprehensible, does this actually help the Jewish population in the UK?

It's morally reprehensible to be anti-Iran? Really? And as for it helping Jewish people in the UK (which you suddenly seem to give a shit about for some reason), the IRGC are funding terrorist attacks against Jewish targets.

It's crazy that a couple of posters are still desperately trying to prove that the UK only sells a few arms to Israel rather than lots and lots or arms.

I was comparing the Oxfam post to the BBC Verify posts. Still it seems you agree with me that they are not saying the same thing.

As for the rest of your post - you seem to be surprised that the West is anti-Iran which would be unbelievably stupid so surely you didn't mean that.

Talk about entirely missing the point @KeeperOfTheSevenKeys. A number of posters are ignoring what is being posted by others, not reading the posts or articles linked to and then coming up with warped, childlike conclusions.

I was clearly talking about it being morally reprehensible to be supporting Israel in their ongoing genocidal activities. Interesting that you have nothing to say on this key point.
Are you able to quote all the posts where I have allegedly 'not given a shit about UK Jews'? If not, stop throwing around accusations. I won't ask for your post to be deleted after your attack because I prefer it to stand.

Also, do stop making things up about the IRGC funding these attacks unless you are able to provide actual, irrefutable evidence.

Everyone can see that you are comparing the posts. That is not the point I was making.

I will quote the response to the other poster for you too:
Talk about entirely missing the point. A number of posters are ignoring what is being posted by others, not reading the posts or articles linked to and then coming up with warped, childlike conclusions.
I was clearly talking about it being morally reprehensible to be supporting Israel in their ongoing genocidal activities. Interesting that you have nothing to say on this key point.

I don't support Israel.

But I'm certainly not stupid enough to support Iran just because Israel is attacking them, although some people seem to be.

Perhaps they have a death wish.

HAYI have taken responsibility for many of the attacks, but you can pretend they bave nothing to do with Iran if it makes yoy feel better.

And you obviously don't need to worry about British Jews. They have the Jewish lobby to protect them after all...

I’m glad we can now agree that the UK is supplying arms/ military exports to Israel

Now you're using 'military exports' too.

I think when people hear "Britain is selling arms to Israel" they assume the usual meaning of selling guns and bombs to Israel, not selling ejector seats and laser sights to the US who put them on planes which it may then sell to Israel. It doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it? But that appears to be the bit the two articles agree on.

What interests me most about the Oxfam article is that it was written after the BBC Verify article but repeats points that the Verify article debunks. Disappointing for a charity, and I'll bear that in mind next time someone posts 'charities and human rights groups claim...'