Are you neutral and knowledgable?

[Itsokaytomorrowisanewday]

If you are both knowledgeable and neutral, please can you explain the current issues in the Middle East- why is there conflict between Israel with Lebanon, and Iran and Gaza? What is the history leading up to this current conflict ? Why are the USA involved? Why do the USA want NATO to be involved?

I thought I knew what was going on for a while, but the speed of information, and the bravado and bluster, has got me confused. It now feels like Orwell’s 1984 with a stream of endless wars and no one is quite sure who the enemy is anymore.

Then you aren't neutral. No neutral person would objectively put Netanyahu on the same level Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah, however much I despise him.

Maybe you wouldn’t Shazza but I will. Thanks.

Im not doubting that you put them on the same plane. But you are therefore obviously neither knowledgeable or neutral.

I didn’t say I was knowledgable, and imo it’s neutral to think all parties are mad bastards no?
You’re picking a fight on an obvious more “light hearted” opinion.

Don’t forget the current US administration.

Agree!

Sorry, I guess I don't see the levity in a situation where antisemitism and minimising the barbarian of the Iranian regime and its proxies is having real life consequences in our communities.

I guess you didn’t see it, you’re right

So you think its funny that the Middle East is turned upside down by Iran's relentless persecution of its own people, obsessive project to destroy Israel and persecution of Iranian dissidents and Jews abroad? And the fact that useful idiots seriously (as opposed to your 'lighthearted' position) minimise the barbarity of the Iranian regime?

Nope, never said that anywhere. Again why are you looking for an argument?

It's not neutral to call equivalence between Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Israel and the US.
The former 3 are oppressive Shia Islamist regimes / terrorists who have no respect for women's rights, gay rights, are non democratic and think nothing of murdering both Jewish people and dissidents of their own. The latter are deeply problematic and troubled democratic hawkish states currently led by strongmen. Both are dangerous to the world we live in but to put them all in the same category is absolutely not neutral or knowledgeable.
If you'd like a simple illustration think about which society you'd rather be a part of.
I'm aware hate of Israel and the US is generally accepted on here but if you think they are in the same category then you haven't read enough about what life is like under Islamists.

So still all mad bastards, just different types.

Thank you for the reading recommendations

It's not easy to be non Jewish and be forced to live under Israel. Beaten, sexually assaulted, have your livelihood taken from you, driven from your land and killed all because you aren't Jewish. It's not really the peace and love regime it portrays itself to be is it? Oh but wait they only do that to non Jewish people on the land that they illegally occupy and are attempting to ethnically cleanse of all non Jews, chances are you'll only get spat on if you are a Christian in Israel proper not beaten and raped but yay for gay rights(unless you are gay and want to get married in Israel of course, you can't do that).

I hadn't heard any pro- Palestinian groups speak up for Iranian girls and women before the school was bombed ( which obviously wasn't on purpose- well unless the Iranians did do it, I haven't seen any confirmation) Do they only speak up for girls and women when it's possible Israel or the US could be blamed? What about all the teenage girls (and boys) murdered by the regime for demanding freedom or the right to uncover their hair? So many young people were murdered in January for peacefully protesting. The nurses and doctors that treated the wounded were raped and then murdered themselves. But silence on social media. Like astonishing silence. You don't have to believe in or even like Trump or Netanyahu to be on ordinary Iranians side ( most of whom I know were in support of the war/ support to try to overthrow the regime).

Palestinians have been displaced because their government invaded Israel and massacred and raped so many innocent women, babies and other civilians and then kidnapped more. What would our country do if that happened here? What did America do after 9/11? Not anything different to what Israel did but the difference is Israeli citizens are much much closer to the threat. And anti-Semitism has absolutely made a difference in the response to them. It's now " trendy and lefty" to be openly anti Semitic although disguised as " anti Zionism" ( same thing btw) Hamas are absolutely operating in the West Bank also. And Israel does imprison children sometimes who commit terrorist acts ( children being anyone under 18)

And a lot of middle Eastern countries still have the death penalty for homosexuality, were you campaigning against their laws too...or are you only interested in Israeli laws you don't agree with re the death penalty? ( I don't agree with this law either and think it will be overturned) . But it is for the death penalty for terrorists who have murdered innocent civilians. Bit worse than being gay no? But its interesting the coverage and posts on social media.

I don't think Israel can do no wrong, they probably could use a change of government but on balance, they are on the side of good and could use support. ( The lefties supporting Islamism baffles me).

I hadn't heard any pro- Palestinian groups speak up for Iranian girls and women before the school was bombed

It wasn't pro Palestinians who were the sick fucks dancing in the streets celebrating innocent people being bombed, these people no more care about girls and women than the regimes who bombed a school and killed 150 girls without due diligence. The same people who cared so much about Iranian women and children they were moved to celebrate their bombings also excused women and girls being starved, they denied their sexual assaults, they excused what the UN described as a “femi-genocide”. It's not surprising it was the same people who were pro the destruction of Gaza who were so excited about Iranians being bombed that they shamelessly celebrated is it? Absolute ghouls, I would never stand side by side with them.

What would our country do if that happened here?

What would the UK do if they were illegally occupied, terrorised and forced out of their homes because they are the wrong ethnicity, if their grandmother's were beaten to death by foreign soldiers in their own homes, their children shot in their streets by foreign soldiers who then stand over them and watch them bleed to death to make sure that they are dead, terrorists guarded by a foreign army sexually assaulting and beating people with impunity?

Who needs the death penalty when you can just wipe out 4 members of a family on their way home from a shopping trip and then brag to one of the surviving children that you just killed some dogs and not even face an investigstikn? When you can starve children who have been charged with no crimes to death in prison and face no consequences? No need for trials when it's Israel doing the killing, just kill, kill, kill and if pushed investigate yourself and find yourself innocent of all charges.

This isn't what the 'side of good' looks like.

OP go and see which country has the highest kill count of children. Then re read everyone's posts. This is a neutral statement. But it will trigger the people that you shouldn't listen to, saving you time.

A great example of a non neutral post.

FYI @delna, the pro Palestinian demonstrations were for the exact purpose of showing support for Palestinian civilians, obviously including women and children. It really is appalling that you still try to deny that the 160+ schoolgirls were murdered by a US missile. This has been admitted by the Pentagon. It was a Tomahawk weapon, which the Iranians do not possess.
The way you seek to gaslight and victim blame is reprehensible.

@Itsokaytomorrowisanewday no one with knowledge of the situation will be neutral. Anyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge of the history of US led wars and Israeli led aggression will be against this current conflict. There is lots of good reading material and podcasts available. A couple of posters to recommend on here @BelleHathor and @AginglikeGazpacho, who is half Iranian and hence has a strong personal relation to Iran.

A key issue is that since 1967 Israel has illegally occupied territory that it has no legitimate claim over and enabling Israeli terrorists to attack villages and Palestinians and illegally claim land in the west bank all supported by the Israeli military. An elderly woman was beaten to death by the IDF in the west bank a few days but attacks like this are such a daily commonplace that they dont get a mention on the news.

Israel gave up settlements in Gaza in 2005 but shortly after the election of Hamas conducted a blockade of Gaza so the people of Gaza have had 20 years of being stuck inside a very small area with huge limitations on entry and exit (people waiting in stadiums for weeks on end for permissions to leave for cancer treatment). Lots of restrictions on what could come into Gaza - many medicines and essential items such as chocolate blocked for years). Regular campaigns of bombing and shooting from the heavy militarised border wall.

In 1995 Israel had a Prime Minister who recognised that Israel's future security would only be assured by a 2 state solution. He tried to negotiate with the Palestinian Liberation Organisation and negotiated the Oslo peace accords which tried to find a path to peace and a 2 state solution
He was assasinated in Nov 1995. In July 1995 a few months before his murder, Netanyahu led a mock funeral procession featuring a coffin where people chanted chanted 'Death to Rabin'. Rabins wife still blames Netanyahu for his death. Netanyahu has faced many corruption trials and has had to form coalitions with far right terrorists to remain in power (Ben Gvir - charged of funding terrorist group 2008). Israel politics and society has increasingly veared to the right and become more extremist.

Iran fund and support Hamas amd Hezbollah. Until fairly recently Netanyahu also funded Hamas as he wanted to split Palestinian solidarity. Hamas and Hezbollah both engage in regular missile attacks and attacks against Israeli civilians.

Dont know so much about Iran but in 50s they were v liberal - women in short skirts etc. There was a joint US/UK operatiom to remove their government and install an undemocratically elected Shah who ruled until late 70s i think - he was removed by an uprising and lots of Iranians had to flee Iran. Iran had beem crippled by lots of sanctions. Has a very strict Shia Islamic regime under which women are oppressed and protests in 2022 and 2023 saw lots of young girls imprisoned and beaten and some raped. Not a nice regime at all. Claims have been made that 30000 protesters in recent months killed by the Iranian regime. But iran havent started any wars with other countries for over 100 years - they hate America though and Israel and they fund Hamas and Hezbollah which regularly attack Israel.

Hezbollah are based in Lebanon and are largely descendants of refugees who fled in 1948 after the creation of the state of Israel.
There was a nakba and 750 thousand Palestinians left their homes in what is now Israel and have not been able to return - they have not been granted Lebanese citizenship, still dont have the right to work in Lebanon - many still living in refugee encampments despite having been born and had parents born in Lebanon. They despise Israel and want to take back what they see as their land and return home. They were understood to have extensive rockets and ammunition hidden in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah are more powerful than the Lebanese state which are kind of a failed state really - bankrupt and coŕrupt and a vassal state split between sectarian factions.

Before Israel was created by a UN resolution ( in the days where those actually mattered) the land was held by the British in the British Mandate of Palestine. Jews have always lived in this land but up until 1947 made up a relatively small proportion of the population - about 7 percent. The UN resolution that created Israel recommended partitioning the lamd into 2 states - one Arab and one Jewish with the Jewish state of Israel taking 56% of the land. There have been a number of wars involving Israel since their independence since 1947 - each war has led to Israel taking more and more territory. Israelis feel that their survival is at stake and feel an existential threat from these wars and from Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran who support them. Israel wont allow Palestinian statehood and peace and Hamas and Hezbollah funded by Iran wont allow Israel to have peace and dont accept Israel's legitimacy.
Both Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran veering towards extremists regimes and their people suffering as a result.

Many Jewish people disagree with the actions of the Netanyahu administration. Most right minded people think Hamas are terrible people with appalling human rights records.

i always wonder, specifically, what is it about the Israeli state that makes you wave a Palestinian flag - when I hear nothing about the Uyghur Muslims? I’m not accusing you of anything - I’m just wondering. Thanks to all who’ve come out in their Keffiyeh to explain the issues with Israel. This is not accusing people of being anti semitic nor is it whataboutery by the way. I am genuinely interested why one state evokes such ire… I can only surmise and ask you to examine why that is.

Yup and this so far is the most none neutral post.

I had a baby in sept 2023. I was on tiktok all the time. Breastfeeding late at night. After Oct 7th i spent hours and hours scrolling direct footage of babies, childrens bodies in the rubble, shivering in tents with fear, mothers screaming. I never saw a dead body before, not even my mothers. But night after night i watched children on hospital beds with limbs blown off, desperate healthcare workers and hospitals attacked. Footage of Israeli quadcopper drones mimicking cries of babies so that people leave their homes to explore the sound. Surgeons imprisoned and still in prison, raped. Politicians agreeing thar a population of majority children should have their food,water and medicine cut off. A 5 year old girl waiting in a car surrounded by her dying and dead family riddled with bullets for the ambulances to come but the tanks come instead and blew the ambulance up and 350 bullets shot into the car - i heard that girl, her voice on the phone to the red cross pleading with them and the fear she had. I saw images of babies in incumbators left to die as the IDF forced the healthcare workers to abandon them. I saw so many bodies in plastic bags. I saw babies bodies beheaded. This wasnt just one image i saw but hundreds upon hundred, live videos of desperate Gazans and also videos of Israelis mocking them. I was with them in their fear in horror for hours. It changed my life, living through a genocide. It broke me in a way i will never recover from. I've never seen an image of the suffering of a Ughyr Muslim. I looked through the images of the aftermath of Oct 7th and felt very sorry for what they experienced but it didnt justify the horror of what was done to the people in Gaza.
Gaza completely destroyed and debates on mumsnet about whether it was hyperbole to say 70 percent of houses destroyed when it could mean damaged. IDF soldiers wearing womens underwear laughing as they blow up buildings. I couldnt understand why people could support this. Israel allow rapists to go free, they passed a law to execute people based on their ethnicity. Israel prevented food and baby formula from getting into Gaza for months. I saw a prisoner being gangraped on video and then the rapists celebrated on Israeli tv. They bombed bakeries and humanitarian deliveries. They set dogs on a man with down syndrome and allowed him to bleed to death whilst sending his family away as he died. They bombed water desalination plants. I will never understand why the actions of this state doesnt provoke the same ire from everyone.
Oh and the footage of the mass graves and an image of a flattened body, hands ziptied and flattened by a bulldozer - too many images of horror to recall.

I may have once agreed with you: I’m not so sure anymore. This particular Israeli government and this particular US administration.

They are all driven by a dangerous ideology. At the moment Israel and the US are curtailed by the democratic processes in place. But that’s the only difference at the moment.

Strategic Context: Fragmentation of the Post-Colonial Order and the Reassertion of Regional Power Blocs

The contemporary conflicts spanning Israel, Gaza, Lebanon, and Iran are not discrete wars but interlocking theatres within a protracted regional system of instability. To understand them requires moving beyond event-driven narratives and instead treating the Middle East as a layered strategic environment shaped by three enduring dynamics: the unresolved legacies of colonial boundary-making, the failure of durable Palestinian state formation, and the emergence of Iran–Israel as the principal axis of regional strategic rivalry.

Since the mid-20th century, the region has oscillated between moments of attempted stabilization—through peace treaties, deterrence structures, and external security guarantees—and recurrent systemic breakdowns driven by asymmetries in military capability, ideological divergence, and proxy warfare. The present configuration is best understood not as a single war, but as a “linked escalation system,” in which violence in Gaza, southern Lebanon, Syria, and maritime corridors feeds into a wider deterrence contest involving Iran, Israel, and Western-aligned states.

The perception of informational overload and “endless war” is not incidental. It is structurally produced by the proliferation of actors (state and non-state), the acceleration of media cycles, and the deliberate use of information operations by all sides as an extension of kinetic conflict.