Let's face it Iran is indiscriminatly hitting Israeli civilians targets including schools using cluster bombs.....

[mids2019]

Iran is firing missiles into heavily populated Israeli towns and have abandoned the pretence of targeting anything military.....this is just pure terrorism and does make you think what would happen if Iran did manage to develop a nuclear weapon.

Just hoping more of the missile launch sites can be taken out and this terrorist regime falls.

.here’s going back a little further in Palestine

In the year to October 2025 M15 tracked Iranian 20 plots in the UK alone and there were at least 10 plots uncovered in a few years before that. Two Iranians were just in court for spying and the Iranians are potentially behind the touching of the Hatzolah ambulances. There is plenty of evidence across the US and Europe of the Iranians using criminal/drugs gangs to carry out their plan and 2 Iranians were found guilty of plotting to kill Masih Alinejad in the United States.

For some reason you're only interested in Iranian attacks across the West, and not the huge numbers killed by Iran & their proxies in Israel and across the Middle East.

Agreed. I'm certain he was warned that it would not be like Venezuela but Trump is nothing if not a narcissist.

And many Brits don't like what Labour and the Tories do/have done to them either, ditto the Americans and the populations of many countries. Is that a good reason to start attacking these populations and detroying their homes and infrastructure?

That's your assumption and not one born out by the facts. The facts are that the Iranians have consistently allowed weapons inspectors, have not taken steps to build nuclear weapons and were attacked twice during negotiations. Given this, how do you suppose they feel about potential future negotiations?

And here we have another example straight from the flat earthers debate manual.

Quote "In the year to October 2025 M15 tracked Iranian 20 plots in the UK alone and there were at least 10 plots uncovered in a few years before that"

Two pages ago I debunked this claim, with evidence, WRT the context in which you were using the claim. I challenged you on this, and I presented what was actually reported. That MI5 said the majority of these suspected plots were against Iranian dissidents living in the UK. You responded to my challenge with " erm, um, everyone knows Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world, do your own research, I am doing the garden now so too busy"

In fact, you go on to provide more evidence that the suspected plots are against dissidents by mentioning an assassination plot in the US.

Yes, trying to kill dissidents is an abhorrent thing to do. And it shows just how important the asylum system is in the West. That we should be protecting people that claim asylum.

But it is not usually a reason for war. Plenty of countries try to kill/silence dissidents. Russia and Saudi Arabia spring to mind. The PRC try to kidnap/intimidate them. Not war.

@BelleHathor followed up on my post with data. I do not know how accurate the numbers are, but it demonstrates something that has long been known. That it is Sunni aligned individuals and groups who do the vast majority of Jihadist style outrages. And it's worth noting that when such an outrage happens it is described as "Isis inspired" etc. But as we see with the terrible Ambulance arson, many people just jump on the "Iran organised it " wagon, with zero evidence.

And yup,I hope everyone is fully behind the Asylum system. Given how we see how important it is.

Let’s face it, Israel started it this year, but personally I couldn’t care less - both sides can bomb each other into oblivion as long as they leave us alone.

Yes. Hegseth is big on AI. Hence all this court case stuff with the AI company that does not want it's product used in this way.

I think what it means is that if you are a plumber say, with pipes in your yard, then you might be a target. And same if you are a school getting some work done. AI appears to be deciding if things "look military".

Nope.

The context the PP used was 'everybody thinks they are the biggest state sponsor of terrorism"

Re proscribing, we do not know if that is the reason given. And even then, it is not a given that proscription of any organisation is the correct decision. That Palestinian group in the UK for example. That's a debatable "correct" decision going by polls and statements from MPs.

A good example of an argument from popularity is " There are 2 billion plus Christians in the world, therefore the Christian God exists". That's just not true.

And yes, I am atheist, so I have no idea why you think I am a fan of a theocratic authoritarian brutal military force. I am far from being a tankie. I am the opposite in fact.

But anyway, play the ball and not the player. You are getting into ad hominem territory now. Another flerth debate technique by the way.

Well done, you ve totally justified my post... the defenders of this war will justify anything at all.

The latest is the 3 journalists murdered in Lebanon.

Now even the Israelis don't pretend it was an error, IDF spokesman saying they were killed because they suspect one was giving away troop movements... zero evidence provided, even if true, 2 innocents murdered.

@RedTagAlan
Your argument from popularity fallacy would only apply if someone said "this is true because lots of people say its true". And without trawling back through the thread, the thrust of what I thought was said was more like "Most people believe Iran are a key sponsor of terror becuase it has been widely reported (including with sources from intelligence agencies), therefore it's surprising that you dispute this".

@Alexandra2001 I don't get what you're on about sorry.

Its not me that's the flat earther here! I know very well the nature of the Iranian regime and if you and others want to minimise that go ahead. Meanwhile many synagogues and Jewish organisations are having to ramp up security thanks directly to the increased Iranian threat, as advised by counter terrorism who are getting the briefings that you don't have access to (but I do have contacts in counter terrorism). People on this board will minimise that too, no doubt.

I don’t think the list of countries treating the IRGC as they do have it wrong.

Some might think they’re hard done by and it’s ‘popularity fallacy’ (you’re giving the impression you think this), it seems overly positive for an organisation that does what they do.

The last line doesn’t make sense btw.

The last line definitely made no sense.

So show the evidence that Iran are the biggest sponsors in the world of terror. And by terror I mean in the context that people mean.

Edit to add: it is a logical fallacy unless evidence is given to show the fact to be true. Eg, all Mail readers believing something in the Mail to be true does not make the Mail story true unless the story is proven to be true.

Sheesh, don't get this in flat earth debates.

I think news reports were linked upthread. But the raw information would be held by intelligence agencies, which presumably none of us has access to.

Given you posted the IRGC is a theocratic authoritarian brutal military force in the pp what is the issue with countries proscribing them or leaving them out of major accords?

Is your argument actually that Iran isn't a major sponsor of terrorism throughout the ME and Europe in particular?
I can't figure out what point you're trying to make?

Down the semantic rabbit warren we go.

The original claim was "biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world", and the evidence presented was an argument from popularity fallacy. Basically "everyone thinks that. I asked for actual evidence as did @oldtiredcyclist , @BelleHathor presented evidence suggestive of the contrary. I agreed with what Belle posted by the way because I have seen similar, so in general terms I agree it to be true. The specific numbers Belle quotes I don't know about.

You expanded on the popularity fallacy by mentioning that the IRGC is proscribed by many Governments. But you fail to say WHY it is proscribed by each nation. And that is important, because if it was proscribed because it is the "biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world", then the evidence that we asked for to support this claim should be on hand.

HAMAS is proscribed in the UK for example. But so far as I am aware, it is not proscribed because it is blowing up UK train stations, it is proscribed as an act of Diplomatic solidarity with Israel.

So where is the evidence to back up the "biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world" claim ?

Down the semantic rabbit warren we go.

The original claim was "biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world", and the evidence presented was an argument from popularity fallacy. Basically "everyone thinks that. I asked for actual evidence as did @oldtiredcyclist , @BelleHathor presented evidence suggestive of the contrary. I agreed with what Belle posted by the way because I have seen similar, so in general terms I agree it to be true. The specific numbers Belle quotes I don't know about.

You expanded on the popularity fallacy by mentioning that the IRGC is proscribed by many Governments. But you fail to say WHY it is proscribed by each nation. And that is important, because if it was proscribed because it is the "biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world", then the evidence that we asked for to support this claim should be on hand.

HAMAS is proscribed in the UK for example. But so far as I am aware, it is not proscribed because it is blowing up UK train stations, it is proscribed as an act of Diplomatic solidarity with Israel.

So where is the evidence to back up the "biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world" claim ?

Hamas is proscribed because of the terrorist acts it commits, not in an act of 'diplomatic solidarity'.

The proscribed list isn't a tool of diplomacy, it's a legal tool, with the aim of keeping uk citizens safe from terrorism.

Just saw this. For a start do you really think there’s equivalence between our gov which we can vote on and the IRGC?

Is it proscribed because of terrorism it does in the UK ? If it is then I take that line back. But that would not change my point.

In fact, I looked it up. No it is not proscribed because it does terrorism in the UK.

"Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyyah (Hamas) – Proscription extended November 2021
Hamas is a militant Islamist movement that was established in 1987, following the first Palestinian intifada. Its ideology is related to that of the Muslim Brotherhood combined with Palestinian nationalism. Its main aims are to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation, the establishment of an Islamic state under Sharia law and the destruction of Israel (although Hamas no longer demands the destruction of Israel in its Covenant). The group operates in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Hamas formally established Hamas IDQ in 1992. Hamas IDQ was proscribed by the UK in March 2001. At the time it was HM government’s assessment that there was a sufficient distinction between the so called political and military wings of Hamas, such that they should be treated as different organisations, and that only the military wing was concerned in terrorism. The government now assess that the approach of distinguishing between the various parts of Hamas is artificial. Hamas is a complex but single terrorist organisation.
Hamas commits and participates in terrorism. Hamas has used indiscriminate rocket or mortar attacks, and raids against Israeli targets. During the May 2021 conflict, over 4,000 rockets were fired indiscriminately into Israel. Civilians, including 2 Israeli children, were killed as a result. Palestinian militant groups, including Hamas, frequently use incendiary balloons to launch attacks from Gaza into southern Israel. There was a spate of incendiary balloon attacks from Gaza during June and July 2021, causing fires in communities in southern Israel that resulted in serious damage to property.
Hamas also prepares for acts of terrorism. One incident of preparatory activity is that Hamas recently launched summer camps in Gaza which focus on training groups, including minors, to fight. This is evidence of Hamas being responsible for running terrorist training camps in the region. In a press statement, Hamas described the aim of these camps as to “ignite the embers of Jihad in the liberation generation, cultivate Islamic values and prepare the expected victory army to liberate Palestine”."

Source :

Proscribed terrorist groups or organisations - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)