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Conflict in the Middle East
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42
SharonEllis · 20/01/2026 06:09

Ihatetomatoes · 19/01/2026 22:31

It would be a good start if they stop funding Hezbollah, The houthis, Hamas and various others.

Edited

Of course it would. No one thing will resolve the conflicts in the region but Iran is a hugely destabilising force.

38thparallel · 20/01/2026 07:45

RedSongBird · Today 18:20
No. I would like to see a peaceful transition of power a bit like the Glorious Revolution.

If the present regime is overthrown, do you think those responsible for torture and murder should be punished?

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:16

Starch1e · 19/01/2026 20:47

I am being a bit mean to Mary Grin
She always seems happy to fade into background and allow William to do the ruling - unlike Anne who kept her husband in his place.
Anyway, enough derail from me.

I thought I’d accidentally jumped onto a European history thread for a minute there. I simply used the Glorious revolution as an example of how a democracy was born from a bloodless revolution and the French revolution as an example of how a democracy was born from a bloodbath. For Iran, if it were possible, I wish the former for them.

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:18

38thparallel · 20/01/2026 07:45

RedSongBird · Today 18:20
No. I would like to see a peaceful transition of power a bit like the Glorious Revolution.

If the present regime is overthrown, do you think those responsible for torture and murder should be punished?

I think anyone from any country who is found guilty of torture and murder should be punished.

SharonEllis · 20/01/2026 08:33

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:16

I thought I’d accidentally jumped onto a European history thread for a minute there. I simply used the Glorious revolution as an example of how a democracy was born from a bloodless revolution and the French revolution as an example of how a democracy was born from a bloodbath. For Iran, if it were possible, I wish the former for them.

Except neither resulted in democracy.

EasternStandard · 20/01/2026 08:36

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:16

I thought I’d accidentally jumped onto a European history thread for a minute there. I simply used the Glorious revolution as an example of how a democracy was born from a bloodless revolution and the French revolution as an example of how a democracy was born from a bloodbath. For Iran, if it were possible, I wish the former for them.

I’m sure Iranians would prefer that too but how do you suggest they do it?

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:47

EasternStandard · 20/01/2026 08:36

I’m sure Iranians would prefer that too but how do you suggest they do it?

Well in an ideal world, the clerics would realise the games up and cede total power to the parliament who then calls fresh elections. Of course this isn’t an ideal world but one can only hope.

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:51

SharonEllis · 20/01/2026 08:33

Except neither resulted in democracy.

That is debatable but I’m sure the French would have something to say about that. They’re quite proud of their republic even if it is a representative democracy and not a direct democracy.

inamarina · 20/01/2026 08:56

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:47

Well in an ideal world, the clerics would realise the games up and cede total power to the parliament who then calls fresh elections. Of course this isn’t an ideal world but one can only hope.

Okay, but this is not an ideal world, the clerics don’t seem to be planning on going anywhere and have facilitated a bloodbath already, so what now?

SharonEllis · 20/01/2026 08:57

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:51

That is debatable but I’m sure the French would have something to say about that. They’re quite proud of their republic even if it is a representative democracy and not a direct democracy.

Its not debatable at all. Both revolutions were an important step, particularly in establishing the supremacy of parliaments over monarchy but neither led directly to democracy. Women didnt get the vote till 1944 in France!

justasking111 · 20/01/2026 09:00

Well have to wait and see I suppose.

EasternStandard · 20/01/2026 09:08

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 08:47

Well in an ideal world, the clerics would realise the games up and cede total power to the parliament who then calls fresh elections. Of course this isn’t an ideal world but one can only hope.

Ok if posting this could make that happen Iranians would be happy I’m sure. In the meantime their post protest is being violently oppressed and that’s their reality. What can they do?

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 09:12

inamarina · 20/01/2026 08:56

Okay, but this is not an ideal world, the clerics don’t seem to be planning on going anywhere and have facilitated a bloodbath already, so what now?

Unfortunately, at the moment, you are right, but who knows what will happen with continued pressure. The majority of Iranians supported the 79 revolution which put the clerics in power so it is up to them to get rid of them. Any foreign intervention will not be altruistic but an effort to install a puppet. As well as wanting the clerics gone, most Iranians don’t want that either.

HappyFace2025 · 20/01/2026 09:18

The majority of Iranians supported the 79 revolution which put the clerics in power so it is up to them to get rid of them.

While the birth rate has deteriorated in Iran over the past decade +, 40% of Iranians are under 30 years of age and will not have been born in 1979. From what little has come out in recent news it is pstly young people who are at the forefront of the protests taking place now. Tell me how 'it is up to them to get rid of them'? In fact don't bother, thanks.

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 09:23

SharonEllis · 20/01/2026 08:57

Its not debatable at all. Both revolutions were an important step, particularly in establishing the supremacy of parliaments over monarchy but neither led directly to democracy. Women didnt get the vote till 1944 in France!

I’m quite happy to debate this subject with you but I don’t think it is relevant to this thread. Perhaps we need to start a separate thread.

SharonEllis · 20/01/2026 09:31

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 09:23

I’m quite happy to debate this subject with you but I don’t think it is relevant to this thread. Perhaps we need to start a separate thread.

No thanks.

Addybee · 20/01/2026 10:19

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 09:12

Unfortunately, at the moment, you are right, but who knows what will happen with continued pressure. The majority of Iranians supported the 79 revolution which put the clerics in power so it is up to them to get rid of them. Any foreign intervention will not be altruistic but an effort to install a puppet. As well as wanting the clerics gone, most Iranians don’t want that either.

If we take history seriously, many people argue that foreign interference played a massive role in the 1979 Revolution. Yet now, some of those same voices insist that any future change must happen with absolutely no external involvement. That feels like a selective reading of history. The uncomfortable truth is that major shifts in power rarely happen in isolation.

There’s a lot of discussion about finding a cleaner or more “acceptable” path forward. But this is a revolution, not a policy reform fo goodness sake. Revolutions are messy by nature, and this is not a democratic system we’re dealing with.

The clerical establishment has shown, time and again, that it will use extreme force to hold on to power. Expecting them to step aside peacefully ignores both history and reality.

That’s why I struggle with claims that this can be resolved gently or through ideal scenarios. There’s no neat way to dismantle a regime built on coercion and blood. Change, if it comes, will come the way it always has in situations like this: through hardship, disruption, and uncomfortable truths

RedSongBird · 20/01/2026 11:15

Addybee · 20/01/2026 10:19

If we take history seriously, many people argue that foreign interference played a massive role in the 1979 Revolution. Yet now, some of those same voices insist that any future change must happen with absolutely no external involvement. That feels like a selective reading of history. The uncomfortable truth is that major shifts in power rarely happen in isolation.

There’s a lot of discussion about finding a cleaner or more “acceptable” path forward. But this is a revolution, not a policy reform fo goodness sake. Revolutions are messy by nature, and this is not a democratic system we’re dealing with.

The clerical establishment has shown, time and again, that it will use extreme force to hold on to power. Expecting them to step aside peacefully ignores both history and reality.

That’s why I struggle with claims that this can be resolved gently or through ideal scenarios. There’s no neat way to dismantle a regime built on coercion and blood. Change, if it comes, will come the way it always has in situations like this: through hardship, disruption, and uncomfortable truths

Wanting a bloodless revolution is a desire but unfortunately, in this case, I believe you are right, unless there is a massive shift in attitude of the leaders of the army and IRGC to support the revolution, which is unlikely. I have no idea how this is going to pan out. The first wave seems to be over and protestors have been given three days to surrender for leniency. For a revolution to be successful, it requires extreme resolve by the majority of the population and a willingness to sacrifice. I don’t think anyone knows what percentage of the population have the stomach for that and without sufficient numbers, it will surely fail and there will be no second wave. The economic hardships are not going to improve and so dissatisfaction among the general population is only going to increase.

Addybee · 20/01/2026 12:09

If we’re to believe the reported numbers, which I do, around 30,000 people have been killed in just a week. What greater sacrifice is there than people being willing to give up their lives for freedom?

I cannot understand how anyone can sit at the top, and watch this level of bloodshed, and be willing to overlook it simply to hold onto power. No one will convince me that people in those positions who claim to be religious genuinely believe in God. It’s about control, not belief. And if all of this is being done in the name of Islam, then I want no association with it.

And I don’t care how other Muslim countries or people choose to view us. You cannot convince me that supporting or backing a system or version of a religion that does this to its own people is anything other than disgusting and imnhumane.

SharonEllis · 20/01/2026 12:14

Addybee · 20/01/2026 12:09

If we’re to believe the reported numbers, which I do, around 30,000 people have been killed in just a week. What greater sacrifice is there than people being willing to give up their lives for freedom?

I cannot understand how anyone can sit at the top, and watch this level of bloodshed, and be willing to overlook it simply to hold onto power. No one will convince me that people in those positions who claim to be religious genuinely believe in God. It’s about control, not belief. And if all of this is being done in the name of Islam, then I want no association with it.

And I don’t care how other Muslim countries or people choose to view us. You cannot convince me that supporting or backing a system or version of a religion that does this to its own people is anything other than disgusting and imnhumane.

Couldnt agree more.

EasternStandard · 20/01/2026 12:15

Addybee · 20/01/2026 12:09

If we’re to believe the reported numbers, which I do, around 30,000 people have been killed in just a week. What greater sacrifice is there than people being willing to give up their lives for freedom?

I cannot understand how anyone can sit at the top, and watch this level of bloodshed, and be willing to overlook it simply to hold onto power. No one will convince me that people in those positions who claim to be religious genuinely believe in God. It’s about control, not belief. And if all of this is being done in the name of Islam, then I want no association with it.

And I don’t care how other Muslim countries or people choose to view us. You cannot convince me that supporting or backing a system or version of a religion that does this to its own people is anything other than disgusting and imnhumane.

Well said. And I’m so sorry it’s so painful to see.

quantumbutterfly · 20/01/2026 15:29

Addybee · 20/01/2026 10:19

If we take history seriously, many people argue that foreign interference played a massive role in the 1979 Revolution. Yet now, some of those same voices insist that any future change must happen with absolutely no external involvement. That feels like a selective reading of history. The uncomfortable truth is that major shifts in power rarely happen in isolation.

There’s a lot of discussion about finding a cleaner or more “acceptable” path forward. But this is a revolution, not a policy reform fo goodness sake. Revolutions are messy by nature, and this is not a democratic system we’re dealing with.

The clerical establishment has shown, time and again, that it will use extreme force to hold on to power. Expecting them to step aside peacefully ignores both history and reality.

That’s why I struggle with claims that this can be resolved gently or through ideal scenarios. There’s no neat way to dismantle a regime built on coercion and blood. Change, if it comes, will come the way it always has in situations like this: through hardship, disruption, and uncomfortable truths

Agree. Many were convinced they saw American involvement in Jolani's success against Assad who scampered off to Russia - seems Russia were too busy elsewhere to help him more. Syria still is unstable partly due to Iranian proxies I read, so might benefit from a change in Iranian governance.
I think Iran is a more valuable asset to Russia, who nevertheless are still occupied with their occupying in Ukraine- ( apparently many North Koreans are dying for the Russian cause in Ukraine). I have not seen China sending boots on the ground, it has less costly, more....careful ways of dealing with external relations so far.
I understand anti-western feeling and distrust in the middle east and perhaps China can be safely influential there. I have less sympathy for anti-western feeling in the west.
Whatever 'the west' actually means anymore. ( Bit like left and right in politics)

Twiglets1 · 20/01/2026 15:34

Addybee · 20/01/2026 12:09

If we’re to believe the reported numbers, which I do, around 30,000 people have been killed in just a week. What greater sacrifice is there than people being willing to give up their lives for freedom?

I cannot understand how anyone can sit at the top, and watch this level of bloodshed, and be willing to overlook it simply to hold onto power. No one will convince me that people in those positions who claim to be religious genuinely believe in God. It’s about control, not belief. And if all of this is being done in the name of Islam, then I want no association with it.

And I don’t care how other Muslim countries or people choose to view us. You cannot convince me that supporting or backing a system or version of a religion that does this to its own people is anything other than disgusting and imnhumane.

Totally agree that people committing atrocities like this aren't actually religious.

I say this about wicked so- called Christians too. If they were really religious they would be scared of Hell which would be their destiny for their sins on Earth (if you believe in that sort of thing which they claim to).

quantumbutterfly · 20/01/2026 15:47

Twiglets1 · 20/01/2026 15:34

Totally agree that people committing atrocities like this aren't actually religious.

I say this about wicked so- called Christians too. If they were really religious they would be scared of Hell which would be their destiny for their sins on Earth (if you believe in that sort of thing which they claim to).

Agree. Weaponising a belief system happens outside religion too but without the threat or promise of an afterlife.

ilikepotatties · 20/01/2026 16:46

Addybee · 15/01/2026 21:38

There is a clear difference between rioters, who aim to cause destruction, and protesters, who are resisting oppression without harming civilians. Just because some sources label them “rioters” does not make it true. Calling these protesters “rioters” misrepresents reality and diminishes the courage of the people on the streets

I have looked closely at the ONE video you keep referring to , and already see that a small clip of a so-called pro-regime rally to be fake, we already know is from five years ago at a state funeral not an ongoing demonstration-

first picture is from the link of the supposed massve crowd of pro regime rally- and tbe scond pic is from a state funeral, The long white vehicle in the middle? That’s the lorry that carries the bodies of the deceased

also as mentioned any ‘statements’ from the Iranian PM or state media are propaganda, not neutral evidence so I will not take anything they say seriously and anyone who does is part of the problem tbh. Accuracy, context, and critical evaluation of sources matter

I haven't been able to post on MN for a few days. You were talking about sources here to debunk the peaceful protesters video - could you link a copy of the 2020 march which is identical (with the long white lorry) from somewhere like youtube which has a date on it? I have in fact searched and cannot find it anywhere. There were very few helicopter videos, and those that do exist don't feature the same place or the same items. Thank you.

The videos from 2020 show a large number of mourners saying "death to America" as you probably know. It was a huge funeral for someone who had been declared to have been killed by the US. It seems unlikely that they would now be saying "save us America"?

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