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Conflict in the Middle East
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42
HappyFace2025 · 19/01/2026 10:31

38thparallel · 19/01/2026 09:51

@RedSongBird you said if they are replaced by a puppet dictator which is ‘exactly what Pahlavi will be’.

That sounds as if you think he will certainly be a dictator.

Well said.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 10:33

OpheliaIsntMad · 19/01/2026 09:50

I think it was the suggestion that the protesters are puppets of foreign governments that I strongly object to.
I agree that the current regime must go and I also agree that without a leader to unite the protesters there are serious challenges ahead.

It is way more complicated than saying they are simply puppets. There is mass dissatisfaction amongst the Iranian population. They are fed up of living in a collapsed economy and living under draconian Islamic laws. The problem is they have no direction and don’t know how to unite. That creates an environment where clever manipulation by foreign actors of key players amongst the population can influence the outcome to their advantage. I know I’ve said it before but read up about how Britain and the US manipulated the overthrow of Mohammed Mosaddegh in 1953 despite his popularity. That is just one example of foreign actors effecting regime change in their favour. There are many many more.

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 11:24

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 10:33

It is way more complicated than saying they are simply puppets. There is mass dissatisfaction amongst the Iranian population. They are fed up of living in a collapsed economy and living under draconian Islamic laws. The problem is they have no direction and don’t know how to unite. That creates an environment where clever manipulation by foreign actors of key players amongst the population can influence the outcome to their advantage. I know I’ve said it before but read up about how Britain and the US manipulated the overthrow of Mohammed Mosaddegh in 1953 despite his popularity. That is just one example of foreign actors effecting regime change in their favour. There are many many more.

Is it ironic that Iran is currently perceived as a foreign actor trying to destabilise/facilitate regime change in countries it is ideologically opposed to.

I hope there are clever, key players. It's how a lot of countries are born, though in this case a rebirth.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 11:57

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 11:24

Is it ironic that Iran is currently perceived as a foreign actor trying to destabilise/facilitate regime change in countries it is ideologically opposed to.

I hope there are clever, key players. It's how a lot of countries are born, though in this case a rebirth.

You do know what happened the last time a puppet dictator was foisted on the Iranian people. Think 1979 and what ensued. That wouldn’t be a rebirth but history repeating itself and this time the consequences could be even worse.

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 12:00

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 11:57

You do know what happened the last time a puppet dictator was foisted on the Iranian people. Think 1979 and what ensued. That wouldn’t be a rebirth but history repeating itself and this time the consequences could be even worse.

Who said anything about a puppet, or even a dictator?

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 12:32

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 12:00

Who said anything about a puppet, or even a dictator?

That’s what Iranians are worried is going to happen. You really think foreign actors are going to go to great lengths to help create a democracy which puts the interests of the Iranian people first. That would be new!

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 13:11

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 12:32

That’s what Iranians are worried is going to happen. You really think foreign actors are going to go to great lengths to help create a democracy which puts the interests of the Iranian people first. That would be new!

Did I mention foreign actors?

OpheliaIsntMad · 19/01/2026 13:23

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 12:32

That’s what Iranians are worried is going to happen. You really think foreign actors are going to go to great lengths to help create a democracy which puts the interests of the Iranian people first. That would be new!

US, Israel and the West obviously have their own reasons for wanting regime change but the chief motivation (I believe) is to remove a regime that is actively undermining the West in a myriad of ways ( not least the funding of Islamic terrorism) .
I think the Iranian protesters want a government that is more democratic and aligned with liberal values.
So I think (at the moment) the motives of “foreign actors” and the brave Iranian protesters are aligned but that does not mean the Iranians are being “used” as puppets.
I do agree that if a strong Iranian leader ( one who inspires the confidence of a majority) doesn’t emerge from the different groups of protesters there could be serious problems ahead.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 13:49

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 13:11

Did I mention foreign actors?

No, I did. Your point is.

HappyFace2025 · 19/01/2026 13:52

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 13:49

No, I did. Your point is.

And your point is?

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 13:55

OpheliaIsntMad · 19/01/2026 13:23

US, Israel and the West obviously have their own reasons for wanting regime change but the chief motivation (I believe) is to remove a regime that is actively undermining the West in a myriad of ways ( not least the funding of Islamic terrorism) .
I think the Iranian protesters want a government that is more democratic and aligned with liberal values.
So I think (at the moment) the motives of “foreign actors” and the brave Iranian protesters are aligned but that does not mean the Iranians are being “used” as puppets.
I do agree that if a strong Iranian leader ( one who inspires the confidence of a majority) doesn’t emerge from the different groups of protesters there could be serious problems ahead.

Sorry but I don’t think their chief motivation is to only remove the regime. It will be to also install a “friendly” leadership. I absolutely agree though that the Iranian people want a democratic government but a government that works for them and them alone.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 13:57

HappyFace2025 · 19/01/2026 13:52

And your point is?

Have you actually read any of the posts in this thread. I think my point is fairly obvious.

HappyFace2025 · 19/01/2026 14:08

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 13:57

Have you actually read any of the posts in this thread. I think my point is fairly obvious.

I've RTFT. Do please elucidate your point.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 14:15

HappyFace2025 · 19/01/2026 14:08

I've RTFT. Do please elucidate your point.

What is there to elucidate. It’s all there.

OpheliaIsntMad · 19/01/2026 14:17

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 13:55

Sorry but I don’t think their chief motivation is to only remove the regime. It will be to also install a “friendly” leadership. I absolutely agree though that the Iranian people want a democratic government but a government that works for them and them alone.

I sincerely hope the Iranians get a democratic government that works for them - and one that helps to restore stability and peace throughout the region.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 14:26

OpheliaIsntMad · 19/01/2026 14:17

I sincerely hope the Iranians get a democratic government that works for them - and one that helps to restore stability and peace throughout the region.

I do to but I think it will take more than a truly democratic Iran to bring peace and stability throughout the region.

HappyFace2025 · 19/01/2026 14:27

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 14:26

I do to but I think it will take more than a truly democratic Iran to bring peace and stability throughout the region.

It will go a long way towards it if the result stops Iran from financing terrorist groups like Hamas.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 14:54

HappyFace2025 · 19/01/2026 14:27

It will go a long way towards it if the result stops Iran from financing terrorist groups like Hamas.

You do know there’s a lot more to the region than just Gaza and Iran are not the only financiers.

HappyFace2025 · 19/01/2026 15:18

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 14:54

You do know there’s a lot more to the region than just Gaza and Iran are not the only financiers.

I am well aware I assure you. E.G. I was going to add Qatar to the countries that finance terrorism but decided not to deviate any further from the title of the thread.

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 15:23

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 14:54

You do know there’s a lot more to the region than just Gaza and Iran are not the only financiers.

Iran are implicated in Houthis, Hezbollah and Hamas funding, and by extension linked to south American drug cartels. Which other countries are you saying support and fund those groups?
(Because when you write "you do know" that implies you have that knowledge and it would be a useful contribution to the discussion)

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 15:45

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 15:23

Iran are implicated in Houthis, Hezbollah and Hamas funding, and by extension linked to south American drug cartels. Which other countries are you saying support and fund those groups?
(Because when you write "you do know" that implies you have that knowledge and it would be a useful contribution to the discussion)

I’m not actually sure who all the other supporters are but I did find this article if it helps.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 15:47

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 15:45

I’m not actually sure who all the other supporters are but I did find this article if it helps.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

But there's more to this region than Gaza....you said.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 16:00

quantumbutterfly · 19/01/2026 15:47

But there's more to this region than Gaza....you said.

Yes. Middle East is the region and it’s a lot bigger than just Gaza. On another note, I find it quite strange you say that Iran supports drug cartels. For all their faults, they are strictly Islamic. Even the Taliban stopped the poppy trade in Afghanistan for that reason.

RedSongBird · 19/01/2026 16:07

I didn’t say I didn’t believe it. Just that I find it strange.

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