Anti semitism - Bondi beach - when will it stop?

[mids2019]

Thoughts and prayers to those killed and injured in Australia.

Terror attacks go back along way, decades before 9/11, Entebbe, Munich etc but they all have their twisted roots in a lack of a Palestinian homeland, combined with a centuries old hatred of the Jews, Holocaust denial & the actions of the Israeli state.

Then there is ISIS, with a far right Islamic ideology (those that care for one) who want to kill anyone.

On Gaza, didn't the Israeli Govt fund and support Hamas? as a counter to the PLO.

For me, the people marching aren't the issue, we can see them, they can be be looked at, its the ones we don't see, the ones on the dark web, returning ISIS fighters, people let in on Visa's.

We are often told that Australia has the correct immigration policies that we should follow, events show, thats no guarantee.

Oh the people with evil intent are marching too.
These marches are not benign.
The Bondi shooter attended marches. Along with mainstream Muslims, middle class boomers, hipsters, Greens, and Mums/Queers For Palestine, there are plenty of black clad thugs brandishing Isis flags and photos of the Iatollah.
The marches are part of the problem, making parts of the city a nogo area very regularly.

As is the case in the UK. It was only a miracle that the Manchester terrorist didn't kill more people during his attack. Too many people believe they are on the right side of history by attending these marches when in fact they are just encouraging terrorists.

I sometimes feel like I'm going insane.
I'm not Jewish. I'm an Australian of the left, going back to my early 20s (I'm nearly 60). About 90% of my friends are "Free Palestine!" etc, and they attend the big marches, and post and repost about genocide in Gaza, and boycott sodastream and AirBnB (The Sacrifice!!) and talk about how appalling it is that Israel is allowed in eurovision (the really important issues, obviously).
My father in law, an 80-year-old boomer leftist, stated while watching the news "These shootings had nothing to do with antisemitism!"
I am a member of the Labor party and I am SO angry at Albo for his weaselness since October 7. I am a member of the left faction and disgusted at their kneejerk condemnation of Israel.

If it weren't for the 10% of my friends who think critically about Israel and antisemitism and Islamic extremism; and the Jewish and pro-Israel members of the federal government and the Labor party - hearteningly, they are not a majority but they are forceful and outspoken - I would seriously be considering voting for another party at the next election, for the first time in my life. And I would not be voting for small L liberal independents or greens, I would be voting for someone with a hard line on Islamic extremism and upholding western values.
Persecution of the Jews has, throughout history, been the canary in the coalmine, and it's here in Australia for the first time.
I suspect I won't have to vote for some shithead hardliner, as I believe the Australian government will be shaken by the response of everyday Australians to this appalling incident, they will start to pay attention to security advice, and they may actually start to confront this issue.

But see how you talk about it:

”About 90% of my friends are "Free Palestine!" etc, and they attend the big marches, and post and repost about genocide in Gaza, and boycott sodastream and AirBnB (The Sacrifice!!) and talk about how appalling it is that Israel is allowed in eurovision (the really important issues, obviously).”

You’re so dismissive and trivialise their position (you know full well it’s more than just Eurovision)

Yet when it comes to those whose opinion you agree with, they are the only ones who “think critically about Israel and antisemitism and Islamic extremism”.

I’ve said this so many times on this board, as have countless others, it’s possible to be against anti-semitism, worried about its rise at the same time as appalled by the Israeli government’s actions towards the Palestinians.

But rather than argue with those people, you prefer to argue against extremism. Rather than admit that there are people on the other side who do think critically and who do care, you paint them all as idiots.

What a bollocks statement.

It's a bit like attending Tommy Robinson marches and claiming " but I'm not racist ". Maybe true or maybe not - but you'll sure as hell be viewed as racist by the majority for simply attending his marches.

Similarly even if you deny it then you will still be viewed as anti Semitic by the majority for simply attending Pro Palestinian marches.

My thoughts exactly.

And mine.

Check your sources.

One or both of the Australian killers attended a vile antisemitism march, too vile for me to say, but its would have been illegal.

True terrorists don't tend to advertise their extremism.

In the UK, displaying ISIS flags would be highly illegal, instantly bringing the bearer to the attention of the security services.

But protest is allowed, even ones supporting a Palestinian state, after all, it is what the vast majority of countries have signed up too.

Ok I might be wrong about the actual shooter.

But I guess these below aren't "true terrorists" as they haven't killed any innocent people yet.
Nothing to see here! The protests are peaceful! Just a couple of bad apples!

https://www.2gb.com/warning-sign-convicted-terrorist-joined-harbour-bridge-march/

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/the-warning-aussies-should-have-spotted-before-bondi-horror/news-story/5b0353f485bdc8c4d96bc5344fc94319

That's absolute garbage. If you can't see the difference between being horrified by the genocide in Gaza and hating all Jewish people, you're the kind of black and white thinker who's part of the problem. This conflict will never be resolved while both sides and their supporters refuse to budge an inch or acknowledge they've both acted terribly.

All these Jewish people who protested for Palestine and against the actions of the Israeli government; are they also anti-semitic? We shut down Grand Central station to demand a ceasefire. - JVP

Similarly even if you deny it then you will still be viewed as anti Semitic by the majority for simply attending Pro Palestinian marches. @1dayatatime

What are the sources for your claim that the majority of the public view all marchers as being antisemites ?

Let me give you an alternative scenario if someone said:

"if you can't the difference between a genuine concern over immigration expressed on a Tommy Robinson protest and being a racist, you're the kind of black and white thinker that's part of the problem "

"All those black and brown faces who joined Tommy Robinson's protests; are they also racist"

You see it doesn't really matter if you and I can see nuances and shades of grey. What matters is the reality that politics is becoming more polarised where the majority do see things as back and white.

And in the above scenarios then yes the majority would view those attending Tommy Robinson rallies as quite likely to also be racist, just as the majority would view those attending Pro Palestinian rallies as quite likely to be anti semetic.

Of course your own personal bias will mean that you would agree with one half of the above and not the other, just as a Tommy Robinson supporter would only agree with one half and not the other.

The same sources for the claim that the majority of the public view those attending Tommy Robinson marches as racist.

Immigration policy and mass murder/starvation/genocide are not even in the same ballpark and shouldn't be in an analogy.

Anti semitism by the pro Palestinian supporters and racism by the Tommy Robinson supporters are very much in the same ball park

The difference is that because of your own personal bias and prejudices you refuse to recognise one but will heartily call out the other.

It is exactly these polarised views that are causing events like Bondi, when it would be healthier to see both the anti semitism and racism of each side.

'All these Jewish people who protested for Palestine and against the actions of the Israeli government; are they also anti-semitic?'

Who knows? There will be self hating Jews among them, also Jews who want to be viewed as 'good' Jews (plenty of those around). Heaven help them if one day they need Israel when America spits them out. German Jews thought they were good German citizens. We all know how that ended up.

People prepared to do murder etc are not driven by a protest march.

What drove the Shoe bomber, the Munich killers, the Manchester bomber etc etc?

People can be in favour of a Palestinian state and not be antisemitic but i doubt very much the supporters of Tommy Robinson, a convicted thug, are not racist.

Its a bit weird that Jews who don't support the annexation of the West Bank and are sickened by the death toll in Gaza are now called "Self Hating Jews"

Not weird at all. They want to be seen as 'Good Jews'. You'll find them on the marches. But when the shit hits the fan they will still be Jews. As I posted above, German Jews thought of themselves as good German citizens and hoped that would save them.

THere are supporters of Palestinian statehood whom I respect, and who have nuanced and meaningful things to say about it, and I do discuss the issue with them.
The majority of people on the marches who I am referring to aren't worth engaging with, they just retaliate with "but it's wrong to kill babies", "Decolonisation", "Israel's an apartheid state", and other regurgitated slogans.

I do actually believe that people who repost reels and memes about Gaza that get their attention without fact checking for sources and credibility are dangerously gullible; people who spout the slogan that Israel is committing genocide are not thinking critically; people who campaign online against sodastream and Israel's involvement are conducting textbook meaningless slacktivism; people who go on a march and say they're not bothered by Isis and Hamas flags in their midst are useful idiots who have contributed to the rise of antisemitism; and I will speak contemptously about them.
These are people who hadn't heard of Gaza until October 8th 2023, and now they think there are simple solutions to a thing that has been a problem since before their parents (some of their grandparents) were born. They know plenty about Australian politics, but they don't know anything about middle east geopolitics.
Those are the Palestine supporters I'm talking about. They've all gone pretty quiet on the issue in recent months as it's not the cause of the moment. They will move onto something else in due course.

Just to clarify it is possible to be Jewish and hold antisemitic opinions.

Possible to be black and racist. Possible to be a woman and hold opinions that are sexist against women.

We aren't in a Nazi Germany style situation.

I find it odd that when anyone who disagrees that pro Palestinian marchers are antisemites etc etc, they get called various names.

All the pro Palestinian marches (in the main want) is for Israel to abide by the UN rulings on the matter.

We are witnessing the annexation of the West Bank, we ve witnessed the destruction of Gaza, very soon, probably within the next 2 or 3 years, it will be impossible for a Palestinian state.

Then terrorism will snow ball.

'We aren't in a Nazi Germany style situation.'

Neither was my mother as a child, nor her family who died in camps. Most people in the West didn't see Hitler for what he was until too late. Even the UK appeased him.What is more concerning now than 100 years ago that Jew hatred is no longer confined to Germany, Russia and Eastern Europe as it was during the first half of the 20th century. It is now worldwide which is why Bondi is a wake up call.

You really have no idea how embedded in the Jewish psyche is the Jew hatred faced by them and where it can lead, and how Israel's existence is so important.
Whether a two state situation can ever happen I really don't know but while terrorists continue to murder and maim innocent civilians at will and proclaim that their only aim is to wipe Israel off the map, there will never be peace.

Terrorists can be groomed over time in a number of ways . Inflammatory rhetoric at a protest march can definitely be a contributing factor.
I think the “Globalise The Intifada “ chant could definitely sound like a call to violence for those who more impressionable or violent by nature .

The Met in London and Manchester finally agree that it is inflammatory enough to be arrested for. That is a start.