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Conflict in the Middle East

4 countries to boycott Eurovision due to Israel’s continued inclusion

670 replies

Everexpanding · 04/12/2025 19:18

In a statement released on Thursday afternoon, the Dutch broadcaster Avrotros said it would also withdraw from next year’s contest. “After weighing all perspectives, Avrotros concludes that, under the current circumstances, participation cannot be reconciled with the public values that are fundamental to our organisation.”

The Slovenian national broadcaster, RTVSLO – the first to threaten a boycott this summer – said participation “would conflict with its values of peace, equality and respect”.

Spain’s culture minister, Ernest Urtasun, backed the decision, adding: “You can’t whitewash Israel given the genocide in Gaza. Culture should be on the side of peace and justice. I’m proud of an RTVE that puts human rights before any economic interest

RTÉ feels that Ireland’s participation remains unconscionable given the appalling loss of lives in Gaza and the humanitarian crisis there which continues to put the lives of so many civilians at risk,” the broadcaster said in a statement.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/dec/04/ireland-spain-and-the-netherlands-to-boycott-eurovision-2026-as-israel-cleared-to-compete

Four countries to boycott Eurovision 2026 as Israel cleared to compete

Ireland, Spain, Slovenia and the Netherlands pull out after decision not to hold vote on Israel’s participation

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/dec/04/ireland-spain-and-the-netherlands-to-boycott-eurovision-2026-as-israel-cleared-to-compete

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
belleager · 06/12/2025 17:35

Hortesne · 06/12/2025 16:28

Yes and it has changed the ambit/ethos of Eurovision. Maybe you're one of those people who like that. I am not. I feel uneasy with any broad brush decision taken by a subset of actors (in this case the EBU committee) on behalf of a wider group and the implications of collusion/agreement that goes with it. I prefer people to muddle along rather than be required to take moral stances on issues that aren't actually questions of morality at all.

That seems a small price to pay really - personally I have never liked the Eurovision so much since the popular vote came in, but of course anything human is subject to change over time. The various broadcasters being asked to collaborate with Israeli state TV on this project are quite simply exercising their right to withdraw from that collaboration, on grounds which they've stated and which I (and many others) find entirely reasonable.

Hortesne · 06/12/2025 17:41

Do you maybe think it's a small price to pay because you agree with them? Would you have felt the same if the UK had been kicked out of the EBU after Bloody Sunday? Or if other broadcasters had boycotted the UK during that period of intensified civil war?

There might never have been a Bucks Fizz!

Workingwell · 06/12/2025 17:46

Israel has a functioning democracy, rule of law and functioning free media. It crosses lines sometimes.

@SharonEllis
Crosses lines sometimes!

Is that what you call this?

Stop lying to yourself, and stop trying to defend the indefensible, please!

belleager · 06/12/2025 17:47

Hortesne · 06/12/2025 17:41

Do you maybe think it's a small price to pay because you agree with them? Would you have felt the same if the UK had been kicked out of the EBU after Bloody Sunday? Or if other broadcasters had boycotted the UK during that period of intensified civil war?

There might never have been a Bucks Fizz!

I wasn't alive for Bloody Sunday, and when I was born, it was in Ireland. So, I can't really judge whether a British person with the access to information they had at that time would have been likely to consider exclusion from the Eurovision disproportionate to the atrocity committed in Northern Ireland. I really find this kind of speculation pointless. I'm sure opinions would have been mixed, but personally, I would consider it reasonable to exclude the UK if this were to happen today, certainly.

I am not anti-Bucks Fizz! So in this scenario, I am sure their talent would have won the day elsewhere, or indeed they could have represented another nation.

SharonEllis · 06/12/2025 17:50

SameOldHill · 06/12/2025 17:09

Ok, so I note that you haven’t mentioned concern for Palestinian lives or right to self determination in your motivations for your personal criticism of the Israeli government. Can I ask you, do you think the Israeli government have acted fairly towards the Palestinians?

Secondly the reason I am asking you these questions is because the discourse over the last two years has been filled with accusations of antisemitism and they have stopped people discussing the issues at hand as the pro Palestinians spend a disproportionate amount of time explaining that they are indeed not. It feels like a deflection and so I’m trying to see what lies behind it.

In fact, I think that is one of the many reasons behind what you call the “obsession” and “disproportionate” amount of interest in the Israeli-Palestine issue. No one likes being called an anti-Semite, especially those who genuinely know that they are not, so we continually come back to explain that we are not and why we are not.

In short, rather than shutting down the conversation, accusations of anti-semitism (indirect or not), just fan the flames.

I have expressed support for a 2 state solution and Palestinian self determination more times than I can remember. Of course there have been times when there has been unfairness. I have condemned tbe behaviour of somesettlers in the West Bank and said that a better settlement i the West Bank needs to be achived. I have said these things over and over again. Im flattered tbat you all value my opinions so greatly but Im bored of these interrogations. This is not the playground. This is real life. Israel has created a democracy with unique diversity in the Middle East and has been relentlessly attacked from outside and inside. Wars are dirty and messy and the idea that Israel is uniquely awful when fighting a barbaric enemy in Hamas and other terrorists - who, we are told cant be expected to behave well because of some sort of weird racism of low expectations - is insane

And secondly I have never known anyone, here be 'silenced' by an accusation of antisemitism. How does that even work? Do you lose the use of the typing fingers or something?Its BS. People tend to into full on overdrive, which I think dors reveal sensitivity because they have either shut down their capacity for srlf reflection or they know there is some truth in it. There really is no other explanation for the fixation on Israel and no other country.What I would like to see is some research, some reflection and some listening to Jews and Israelis and then you might start to see a more balanced picture and have some empathy and realise it is possible to care about all the communities in the Middle East and their diasporas.

belleager · 06/12/2025 17:53

On reflection, perhaps bring Irish helps with the ability to see some important distinctions. Many Irish people will see acts of the British army, intelligence and state in the 1970s and 1980s as war crimes which targeted their people. At the same time, Britain and Ireland are neighbours with strong ties in culture, diplomacy and kinship networks. So when Irish people criticize these actions of British institutions as criminal, they are by no means jettisoning a diplomatic relationship, decrying the existence of the British state, seeking the persecution of British people. But they would often wish to be able to hold the British state responsible for criminal acts committed in its name.

belleager · 06/12/2025 17:57

SharonEllis · 06/12/2025 17:50

I have expressed support for a 2 state solution and Palestinian self determination more times than I can remember. Of course there have been times when there has been unfairness. I have condemned tbe behaviour of somesettlers in the West Bank and said that a better settlement i the West Bank needs to be achived. I have said these things over and over again. Im flattered tbat you all value my opinions so greatly but Im bored of these interrogations. This is not the playground. This is real life. Israel has created a democracy with unique diversity in the Middle East and has been relentlessly attacked from outside and inside. Wars are dirty and messy and the idea that Israel is uniquely awful when fighting a barbaric enemy in Hamas and other terrorists - who, we are told cant be expected to behave well because of some sort of weird racism of low expectations - is insane

And secondly I have never known anyone, here be 'silenced' by an accusation of antisemitism. How does that even work? Do you lose the use of the typing fingers or something?Its BS. People tend to into full on overdrive, which I think dors reveal sensitivity because they have either shut down their capacity for srlf reflection or they know there is some truth in it. There really is no other explanation for the fixation on Israel and no other country.What I would like to see is some research, some reflection and some listening to Jews and Israelis and then you might start to see a more balanced picture and have some empathy and realise it is possible to care about all the communities in the Middle East and their diasporas.

The problem is that you constantly come back to implying that people don't care about Israel, as you've just done here. It is perfectly possible to care about Israel and still to state, these actions go too far, and we want no part in a collaboration with those who are party to them. I have posted above about how Irish people have perhaps had to negotiate these sorts of nuanced positions more than some others.

jasflowers · 06/12/2025 18:00

Twiglets1 · 06/12/2025 17:18

Suddenly we take the word of what officials in Qatar say?

Qatar 2024

Migrant workers, including domestic workers, continued to face human rights abuses, including wage theft, harsh working conditions and poor access to redress mechanisms. Qatar and FIFA again failed to provide redress for the vast numbers of migrants abused while working on 2022 World Cup projects. The right to freedom of expression remained curtailed. Women and LGBTI people continued to face discrimination in law and practice. Qatar’s latest emissions reduction target was undermined by a plan to vastly expand liquefied natural gas production.

Migrant workers continued to face serious abuses, including wage theft, restrictions on changing jobs and inadequate grievance and redress mechanisms

Women continued to face discrimination in law and practice. Under the guardianship system, women needed a male guardian’s permission to marry, study abroad on government scholarships, work in many government jobs, travel abroad if aged under 25, and access reproductive healthcare.
Women remained inadequately protected in law against domestic violence.

Legislation continued to discriminate against LGBTI people. Authorities detained individuals for their sexual orientation or gender expression.
In February, plain-clothes security forces arrested Manuel Guerrero Aviña, a British-Mexican national, shortly after he agreed to meet another man through the LGBTI dating app Grindr. His family believed he was entrapped by law enforcement officials. Authorities detained him without charge for more than six weeks, interrogated him without a lawyer and forced him to thumbprint a so-called “confession” in Arabic, which he did not understand. The authorities subsequently charged him with drug-related offences and sentenced him to a six-month suspended prison term. He returned to the UK in June after receiving a deportation order.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/qatar/report-qatar/

Nice bit of Whataboutery!

Qatar is hosting the peace talks, if they say the Cease Fire is in the bin, then they probably are.

Their HR is appalling but thats not what this thread is about.

Why do people always seek to divert when there is any criticism of Israel?

jasflowers · 06/12/2025 18:07

SharonEllis · 06/12/2025 17:50

I have expressed support for a 2 state solution and Palestinian self determination more times than I can remember. Of course there have been times when there has been unfairness. I have condemned tbe behaviour of somesettlers in the West Bank and said that a better settlement i the West Bank needs to be achived. I have said these things over and over again. Im flattered tbat you all value my opinions so greatly but Im bored of these interrogations. This is not the playground. This is real life. Israel has created a democracy with unique diversity in the Middle East and has been relentlessly attacked from outside and inside. Wars are dirty and messy and the idea that Israel is uniquely awful when fighting a barbaric enemy in Hamas and other terrorists - who, we are told cant be expected to behave well because of some sort of weird racism of low expectations - is insane

And secondly I have never known anyone, here be 'silenced' by an accusation of antisemitism. How does that even work? Do you lose the use of the typing fingers or something?Its BS. People tend to into full on overdrive, which I think dors reveal sensitivity because they have either shut down their capacity for srlf reflection or they know there is some truth in it. There really is no other explanation for the fixation on Israel and no other country.What I would like to see is some research, some reflection and some listening to Jews and Israelis and then you might start to see a more balanced picture and have some empathy and realise it is possible to care about all the communities in the Middle East and their diasporas.

Fair enough but Israeli is conducting a war, not really (now) against an armed enemy but against a civilian population.

The death rate is beyond obscene.

Yet your criticism of Israel is "corruption, coalition and the actions of some WB settlers"

I listened to a Palestinian student here in the UK, she was traumatised, not least because she can never go back, Israel wont let her, not because she is Hamas but because she is a Palestinian and Israel wont let anyone back in....why???

Everexpanding · 06/12/2025 18:31

Unfairness? Is that what are meant to call 50,000 dead civilians @SharonEllis

OP posts:
StandingSideBySide · 06/12/2025 18:37

Hortesne · 06/12/2025 17:41

Do you maybe think it's a small price to pay because you agree with them? Would you have felt the same if the UK had been kicked out of the EBU after Bloody Sunday? Or if other broadcasters had boycotted the UK during that period of intensified civil war?

There might never have been a Bucks Fizz!

I think the U.K. should have been. Just like Israel should have

StandingSideBySide · 06/12/2025 18:43

jasflowers · 06/12/2025 18:00

Nice bit of Whataboutery!

Qatar is hosting the peace talks, if they say the Cease Fire is in the bin, then they probably are.

Their HR is appalling but thats not what this thread is about.

Why do people always seek to divert when there is any criticism of Israel?

Edited

it’s difficult, if not impossible, to counter argue and justify the actions of Israel.

SisterTeatime · 06/12/2025 19:00

Stripes56 · 06/12/2025 17:01

Unless we are clear as to what is wrong or right, when can we clear that laws have been broken?
It’s alright if you are not the victim though? I guess some would be happy to leave the Palestinians to muddle along.

It’s a song contest ffs

And it’s not always clear what’s wrong or right, which was my point

CrossChecking · 06/12/2025 19:00

Everexpanding · 06/12/2025 18:31

Unfairness? Is that what are meant to call 50,000 dead civilians @SharonEllis

Edited

I know it's so downplaying isn't it? The boy I was talking about, Adam, who was executed in the street, it's not 'unfair' it's cold blooded killing. Racial segregation as found by the ICJ it's not 'unfair'. Illegal occupancy 'unfair'. Losing your home, your school being bulldozed, being driven out of business it's not 'unfair' it's criminal.

But hey all of these criminal acts are being carried out by a democracy so all hail Israel and their relentless criminal behaviour 🙄

Can you imagine Palestinians executing Israeli children in the streets if Israel being called 'unfair'. Palestinians burning Israeli villages being described as 'unfair'. It's so ridiculous and transparent.

PevenseygirlQQ · 06/12/2025 19:19

it’s a shame that singers from the countries that pulled out and the Israeli singer don’t get to compete, no doubt they have been working hard towards this and is a chance for them to shine.

Its also a shame that a cheesy singing competition has to be so political, although it always has been I suppose.

I also think banning Israel will appease other countries but I don’t think the intended message will have the affect on Israel that they would like, no doubt Netanyahu and his government know what a lot of the world think of them and the atrocities that they have committed, I just don’t think they care. They don’t care one bit.

SameOldHill · 06/12/2025 19:33

SharonEllis · 06/12/2025 17:50

I have expressed support for a 2 state solution and Palestinian self determination more times than I can remember. Of course there have been times when there has been unfairness. I have condemned tbe behaviour of somesettlers in the West Bank and said that a better settlement i the West Bank needs to be achived. I have said these things over and over again. Im flattered tbat you all value my opinions so greatly but Im bored of these interrogations. This is not the playground. This is real life. Israel has created a democracy with unique diversity in the Middle East and has been relentlessly attacked from outside and inside. Wars are dirty and messy and the idea that Israel is uniquely awful when fighting a barbaric enemy in Hamas and other terrorists - who, we are told cant be expected to behave well because of some sort of weird racism of low expectations - is insane

And secondly I have never known anyone, here be 'silenced' by an accusation of antisemitism. How does that even work? Do you lose the use of the typing fingers or something?Its BS. People tend to into full on overdrive, which I think dors reveal sensitivity because they have either shut down their capacity for srlf reflection or they know there is some truth in it. There really is no other explanation for the fixation on Israel and no other country.What I would like to see is some research, some reflection and some listening to Jews and Israelis and then you might start to see a more balanced picture and have some empathy and realise it is possible to care about all the communities in the Middle East and their diasporas.

Who gives a crap whether it’s a democracy or not? Democracies are still capable of war crimes are they not?

And how would you know whether people have been silenced because they are afraid to be called anti-Semitic or not? They’re silenced. That’s the whole point!

I most definitely have not been as vocal as I’d like to have been because I don’t want to be seen as anti-Semitic.

It’s ridiculous. Did you ever go to the marches? The only form of protest. They were far from anti-Semitic. There were Jews protesting for heaven’s sake, and being thanked for it by Muslims, Christians, whoever because they recognised the importance of their voice.

When people’s deaths are minimised as “unfairness” it’s heartbreaking. Unfairness? Those people have suffered so much, decades of exile, losing their loved ones, living in such insecurity and now this, clawing through the rubble to find their children.

Is that what you call “unfairness”?

ladykale · 06/12/2025 19:36

these things shouldn’t be political.

Russia and Israel should be allowed.

if not, then the United States shouldn’t have attended any of the past three olympics. They’re responsible for some much bloodshed in the Middle East!

belleager · 06/12/2025 20:13

ladykale · 06/12/2025 19:36

these things shouldn’t be political.

Russia and Israel should be allowed.

if not, then the United States shouldn’t have attended any of the past three olympics. They’re responsible for some much bloodshed in the Middle East!

It's not the same people making the decisions, though. IOC for Olympics. EBU for Eurovision.

SharonEllis · 06/12/2025 20:29

CrossChecking · 06/12/2025 19:00

I know it's so downplaying isn't it? The boy I was talking about, Adam, who was executed in the street, it's not 'unfair' it's cold blooded killing. Racial segregation as found by the ICJ it's not 'unfair'. Illegal occupancy 'unfair'. Losing your home, your school being bulldozed, being driven out of business it's not 'unfair' it's criminal.

But hey all of these criminal acts are being carried out by a democracy so all hail Israel and their relentless criminal behaviour 🙄

Can you imagine Palestinians executing Israeli children in the streets if Israel being called 'unfair'. Palestinians burning Israeli villages being described as 'unfair'. It's so ridiculous and transparent.

Edited

I never said 50,000 dead people was ' unfair' did I? don't twist its so tedious. It wasn't me that introduced the concept of 'fairness' As I said, I think its the language of the playground and minimises whole situation - which was part of my point.

CrossChecking · 06/12/2025 20:44

SharonEllis · 06/12/2025 20:29

I never said 50,000 dead people was ' unfair' did I? don't twist its so tedious. It wasn't me that introduced the concept of 'fairness' As I said, I think its the language of the playground and minimises whole situation - which was part of my point.

What do you describe as 'unfair' then Sharon, obviously your post wasnt very clear if so many people took it in a way that you didn't intend. Why don't you clarify then, tell us about some things that have happened to Palestinians that are 'unfair'. If you aren't minimising then be open and tell us, what do you think Israel have done that is 'unfair,' what do you think they have done that is criminal just a few examples of each would be fine for us to understand your post better?

I know you don't like answering direct questions like this so I expect that you will make some announcement like I can't be serious so you won't answer, or act insulted and say that you won't dignify my post with a response or say why should you have to answer when your post will be twisted anyway etc etc.

SisterTeatime · 06/12/2025 20:51

CrossChecking · 06/12/2025 20:44

What do you describe as 'unfair' then Sharon, obviously your post wasnt very clear if so many people took it in a way that you didn't intend. Why don't you clarify then, tell us about some things that have happened to Palestinians that are 'unfair'. If you aren't minimising then be open and tell us, what do you think Israel have done that is 'unfair,' what do you think they have done that is criminal just a few examples of each would be fine for us to understand your post better?

I know you don't like answering direct questions like this so I expect that you will make some announcement like I can't be serious so you won't answer, or act insulted and say that you won't dignify my post with a response or say why should you have to answer when your post will be twisted anyway etc etc.

Edited

I don’t think you should hector a poster in this way, she is posting in good faith and has made many criticisms of Israel and its government, expressed support for a two state solution, and expressed compassion for Palestinians.

I have never seen a ‘pro-Israel’ poster on here state support for settlers in the West Bank, which I think was at least partly what she described as unfair. There may be those who support settlers but I have never read any here.

And you are twisting what she said in my opinion.

CrossChecking · 06/12/2025 21:05

SisterTeatime · 06/12/2025 20:51

I don’t think you should hector a poster in this way, she is posting in good faith and has made many criticisms of Israel and its government, expressed support for a two state solution, and expressed compassion for Palestinians.

I have never seen a ‘pro-Israel’ poster on here state support for settlers in the West Bank, which I think was at least partly what she described as unfair. There may be those who support settlers but I have never read any here.

And you are twisting what she said in my opinion.

Hector a poster? She has made a statement that was misunderstood by multiple posters, is it hectoring to ask that the poster clarify what she means? You said yourself that you don't really know what she means I have never seen a ‘pro-Israel’ poster on here state support for settlers in the West Bank, which I think was at least partly what she described as unfair.

What about the settlers is 'unfair' killing people, clubbing old ladies with sticks, burning children to death in their homes or the fact that settlers can walk down some streets and Palestinians can't? There is a whole range of settler activity what is 'unfair', surely you can see why clarifications are needed. It's 'unfair' to accuse posters of twisting when nobody even you knows what Sharon is talking about. Are you twisting by guessing what she means just like other posters did?

Stripes56 · 06/12/2025 22:28

SisterTeatime · 06/12/2025 19:00

It’s a song contest ffs

And it’s not always clear what’s wrong or right, which was my point

Yes the fact that the we are discussing participation by Israel in Eurovision as a consequence of war crimes is extremely lamentable.

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 07/12/2025 03:54

The very sad thing is that once a position has been taken, some people will defend it to the hilt. And stop questioning why, despite all the evidence. Throwing terms around such as the idea that Israel is the only democracy in the ME, which it so certainly is not, that Israel has the right to defend itself at the expense of the Palestinians, so what does it matter, and everyone who objects to what Israel is doing is antisemitic. Makes life easier for them.

Twiglets1 · 07/12/2025 07:19

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 07/12/2025 03:54

The very sad thing is that once a position has been taken, some people will defend it to the hilt. And stop questioning why, despite all the evidence. Throwing terms around such as the idea that Israel is the only democracy in the ME, which it so certainly is not, that Israel has the right to defend itself at the expense of the Palestinians, so what does it matter, and everyone who objects to what Israel is doing is antisemitic. Makes life easier for them.

So much wrong with this post.

Pro Israel people say that Israel has the right to defend itself from terrorists such as Hamas, not "Palestinians."

We don't say that everyone who objects to what Israel is doing is antisemitic, only those that seek to villainise civilians or the whole country because they disagree with what the Government is doing re the war.

And as for democracy, The Economist publish an annual Democracy Index. The one published in 2024 ranked Israel 30th in the world, right after the U.S. and followed by Portugal. I will find a later one shortly but this article explains it succinctly.

Israel ranked as the only democracy in Mideast, but it isn't 'flawless' - survey

The political regime in Israel is a "flawed democracy," said the recently published annual Democracy Index by The Economist. According to the rating, Israel remains the only democracy in the Middle East, traditionally the worst-ranking region that has no "full democracies."

The index ranked Israel 30th in the world. It comes right after Estonia, Malta and the United States, and is followed by Portugal, Slovenia and Botswana.
As the report highlights, despite being positioned in the "flawed" group, Israel remains the only democracy in the Middle East. Tunisia and Morocco are classified as "hybrid regimes," while the rest of the region's 20 countries fall within the category of "authoritarian" regimes.

The report says the the region's accumulated score lowered across all five evaluated categories: electoral process and pluralism, functioning government, political participation, political culture and civil liberties. Only one country across the Middle East, the United Arab Emirates, saw an improved score over last year.

The rating is traditionally led by Norway, followed by New Zealand, Iceland, Sweden and Finland, and the 2023 Index is no exception. As for the bottom of the list, the five lowest-ranking countries are Syria, Central African Republic, North Korea, Myanmar and, finally, Afghanistan.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/politics/1708324889-israel-remains-only-democracy-in-mideast-but-it-isn-t-flawless-report

Israel remains only democracy in MidEast but it isn't 'flawless' - report - i24NEWS

The Economist's annual Democracy index ranked Israel 30th in the world, right after the U.S. and followed by Portugal - Click the link for more.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/politics/1708324889-israel-remains-only-democracy-in-mideast-but-it-isn-t-flawless-report

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