Israelis should be welcome in Birmingham

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15206171/Parts-Birmingham-no-area-Jews-says-Ed-Miliband-ministers-scramble-allow-Israeli-fans-attend-Aston-Villa-football-match.html

The government need to act on this. West Midlands police have more than enough man power to police a football match with at most 1000 away fans. I watched West Midlands politics today and there was a politician brazenly saying part of the reason for effectively banning the Tel Aviv fans was they there was 'a moral point about Gaza'. We cannot have local councillors, community leaders and MPs agitating for the anti Semitic ban of fans of one of Israel's premier football teams.

We have to face reality want know that a lot of local residents are anti Israel and have taken this opportunity for VIlla Park to become a no go area for Jews.

Let's hope the decision is overturned and quickly.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Apology accepted

Thank you 😊

From the story:

"stated the game is 'not a normal football match' due to the 'ongoing genocide in Gaza', while also expressing fears about a 'track record of violence' by Maccabi fans.

'Their arrival in Aston - a diverse and predominantly Muslim community - poses a real risk of tensions within the community and disorder,' it added."

So game not allowed fans due to what some perceive as an ongoing genocide, not just due to fans behaviour 🤔 .

So Muslim people now decide who gets to go to a particular area..... in the UK! That cannot be allowed. A particular faith gets to dictate. No faith should dictate. Can they not be expected to control themselves if Jewish people are around? This situation in the UK will lead to more and more problems.

No, I don’t. Not outside big stuff like the World Cup and even then I get bored with it easily. It’s so dull.

But I do follow the news.

And I’ve googled this. As far as I can see Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are no worse than many others at clubs all over Europe, including in England.

137550 was the total number of all hate crimes in the UK in 2024, including the subset of religious hate crimes, not the number of hate crimes against against Muslims.
According to the guardian ‘anti-Muslim hate crime rose from 2,690 offences to 3,199 in the 12 months to March 2025’, with a particular spike after the Southport murders.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/oct/09/muslim-charity-worried-hate-crimes-rise#:~:text=In%20the%20year%20ending%20March,highest%20annual%20total%20on%20record.
ETA agreed, both dreadful

bigboykitty
The police based the decision on intelligence provided by UEFA

The Guardian quoted UEFA two days ago - they urged local authorities to allow Maccabi fans to travel;

Uefa, the governing body of European football, has urged local authorities to allow Maccabi fans to travel. The organisation said in a statement: “Uefa wants fans to be able to travel and support their team in a safe, secure and welcoming environment, and encourages both teams and the competent authorities to agree on the implementation of appropriate measures necessary to allow this to happen.”

Racism sadly happens at clubs in this country and even more so all over Europe.

That motion had nothing to do with safety though did it?

From the ME eye article linked above. I can't remember the outrage when Polish fans were banned at Aston Villa

Aston Villa gave the problematic Polish club a restricted ticket allocation of 1,000 tickets - the ticket holders were only denied entry to the game immediately before the match, following violent clashes with West Midlands Police, outside the stadium. An equitable solution therefore would be to allocate 1,000 tickets to Maccabi Tel Aviv fans and allow them to watch the match if they behave themselves.

Amsterdam City Council recently banned Maccabi Tel Aviv from the Dutch capital

I see - very similar sentiments to Ayoub Khan in Birmingham;

The Amsterdam City Council passed an unprecedented decision over the weekend, declaring Israel’s Maccabi Tel Aviv football club “unwelcome” in the city.

Sheher Khan, leader of the Dutch left-wing Denk party, spearheaded the proposal.

“The hardcore of their fans supports genocide—and that alone is reason enough,” he claimed controversially.

Can you name the numerous countries which have banned MTV supporters from attending matches?

They aren’t even on the top 10 list of dangerous fan bases.

Let’s not get into how they were targeted in Amsterdam. This article explains it very clearly including a very important point that the violence in Amsterdam was not from supporters of opposing teams, it was directed at one group of fans by the locals.

https://www.thefp.com/p/pogrom-amsterdam-antisemitism

I think the MP and his constituents views may be very relevant to this, as well as the glaring fact that the vast majority of MTV’s supporters coming from Israel will have been in the IDF.

The chants of ‘Death to the IDF’ which have been allowed on our streets may also be relevant.

Easier to say it’s the MTV supporters who may be violent though.

The statement from West Midlands Police read:

"This decision is based on current intelligence and previous incidents, including violent clashes and hate crime offences that occurred during the 2024 UEFA Europa League match between Ajax and Maccabi Tel-Aviv in Amsterdam.
Based on our professional judgement, we believe this measure will help mitigate risks to public safety."

Are you implying that the violent clashes and hate crime offences were due to the Macabi fans?

The violence in the Ajax game in Amsterdam was described as anti semetic attacks by the Amsterdam Mayor, the Dutch Prime Minister and the Dutch King. But I guess you know better than they do that it was simple football hooliganism?

They shouldn't get any support at all
Not sure what thats got to do with The Police in Birmingham not wanting certain football supporters from a club known to have issues with violent fans attending a match though

But it’s not about some football thugs.

Imams, councillors and even the MP have talked about Israeli genocide. The Imam in particular was stirring with “we shall show them no mercy”.

Now, I’m sure Exeter have said this about Plymouth (“We hate the Argyll and we hate the Argyll!” ) but it’s not political or religious - it’s just a chance for a bit of a ruck and some light fisticuffs rather than visceral hatred of anyone in the next town.

It looks to me as though the argument that the ban on the Maccabi fans was only because of their supposed extreme and unusual violence, backed up by UEFA saying the fans shouldn’t travel, has fallen apart completely on this thread,

Which is as it should be. Because that argument is a falsehood. It’s rubbish. And very unpleasant.

I think the issue here is not about the fans and indeed if individual fans behave badly they can be banned on an individual basis. Even if the fans were impeccably behaved there would still be moved to prevent them attending. Apparently part of the decision to ban the fans was due to a 'community assessment' where the presence of 1000 Israelis in Aston could be commented on and it is quite obvious they were not wanted; not because of thuggery necessarily but because of their country of origin (or indeed race). Councillors and MPs in the city have admitted this is a move motivated primarily about the war in Gaza.

137550 was the total number of all hate crimes in the UK in 2024, including the subset of religious hate crimes, not the number of hate crimes against against Muslims

I don't think you were supposed to check that, @EllaDisenchanted , but well done all the same for pointing it out - also for mentioning that all hate crimes are unacceptable

As we see again and again, there are some for whom absolutely everything which happens to jews must be their own fault, and if the facts don't support this then the facts will be misrepresented

And lots of badly behaved groups of fans have been banned from matches, it’s certainly not unusual. Why do you think that shouldn’t happen to these thuggish fans?

This needs deleting.

There were 3282 hate crimes against Jews in the year ending March 2024 which was 33% of all religious hate crime. The equivalent % for muslims was 38%.
BUT in 2021 there were 3.9 million muslims = 6.5% of the population of England and Wales.
There were 287, 360 Jews = 0.5%.

The government's official figure for religious hate crimes per head is
121 per 10,000 for Jews
10 per 10,000 for Muslims

So the rate of hate crimes agaimst Jewish people is much higher than against muslims.

As @Comedycook says that figure would be much, much higher if Jewish people were as visible as Muslims.

I asked upthread if UEFA had ever imposed a ban on Maccabi fans. Apparently not.

I'd just looked up the numbers for a very similar summary, @SharonEllis, but came back to post it and see you beat me to it

I also agree in principle that the earlier post should probably go, but honestly feel it's better left as a prime example of the sort of misinformation seen too often on here

The same should go for Islamic extremists.

@Puzzledandpissedoff I think if one of us had got to it sooner I'd agree but this correction is so much later that the danger is that people believe it and I see noone properly challenged it for ages. I only just saw @EllaDisenchanted picked up on it - which means people thought it could be true! Anyone who has paid any attention would know it was BS even if they didn't have figures to hand.

They are super easy to find and I have posted this link before

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2024/hate-crime-england-and-wales-year-ending-march-2024

Did I say it shouldn't?

Thanks for this correction

Haven't read the thread.
Love Israel and Israelis. But Israeli football fans aren't ok:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/police-cancel-tel-aviv-derby-after-fans-riot-at-stadium/