Israelis should be welcome in Birmingham

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15206171/Parts-Birmingham-no-area-Jews-says-Ed-Miliband-ministers-scramble-allow-Israeli-fans-attend-Aston-Villa-football-match.html

The government need to act on this. West Midlands police have more than enough man power to police a football match with at most 1000 away fans. I watched West Midlands politics today and there was a politician brazenly saying part of the reason for effectively banning the Tel Aviv fans was they there was 'a moral point about Gaza'. We cannot have local councillors, community leaders and MPs agitating for the anti Semitic ban of fans of one of Israel's premier football teams.

We have to face reality want know that a lot of local residents are anti Israel and have taken this opportunity for VIlla Park to become a no go area for Jews.

Let's hope the decision is overturned and quickly.

Oh for goodness’ sake OP, give it up. You’re flogging a dead horse. Look at the films from outside of the banned match in Tel Aviv. That level of violence - from any group of people, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindus, Sikh, atheist, whoever - is totally unacceptable to anyone of sound mind. No police force, or group of opposing fans, should be expected to face that when it can be prevented.

There are clearly entirely legitimate reasons for banning this particular group that have nothing whatsoever to do with their ethnicity or religion.
Why can’t you see and acknowledge that? There is no shame in admitting that you were mistaken.

Your dogged ideology is a very good demonstration of why the situation in the ME is nigh on impossible to resolve. People take “sides” - both of which are as bad as the other - dig in and absolutely refuse to talk and reach compromise that would make the lives of millions of people better. It’s medieval tribalism, plain and simple. Look at The horror of the Crusades, the Inquisition hundreds of years ago, the Troubles in recent history, the latter where a few very brave people took a leap of faith and it paid off tenfold. Those religions have evolved and moved on and are relatively peaceful now, with a few notable exceptions in certain countries that still need to be dragged, kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. That same leap of faith must be taken by the warring parties in the ME.

People outside of this situation look on in despair and frustration. Heads need banging together.

The authorities in Birmingham have clearly made the only sensible decision. I hope that the PM now butts out of the argument that he felt forced to enter into because of political pressure and allows the police to do their job.

of course 🙄

Your question below, @1dayatatime, would be funny if this wasn’t so serious. It’s akin to “so, what did the romans ever do for us?”
You're basically saying, so apart from evidence of extreme violence from this group, the most recent yesterday, what actual evidence of extreme violence from this group do you have.”

Read what you said again and think about it

”So other than the fact that there was violence at a Tel Aviv game this weekend, that happened after the initial decision and statement was made by WMP, what "evidence" do you have to support the claim that it's purely down to football hooliganism”.

At this point, even though no-one in authority has claimed it was purely down to hooliganism (isn’t that enough, FGS?!) but a consideration of a situation in the round, it pretty obviously is.

Reverse the question. Do you want to allow a group of violent thugs into the UK “because” they are Jewish to make some sort of political point? Substitute Muslim, disabled people, gay people, far-right, far-left, any group of your choice who feels under pressure and discriminated against in the UK right now. Heaven knows, there are plenty to choose from. Makes no sense whatsoever, does it?

It is. It diminishes the description of a very serious and growing problem, in the UK and around the world.
Banning violent thugs of any cohort is not an ism of any kind, it’s the only thing to do.

So if as you say the decision to ban MTA fans from the Aston game was purely due to football hooliganism and not based on nationality, religion or other grounds then why didn't the West Midlands Police statement just say that? And why did a local MP campaign to have them banned because they were Israeli.

Look there is no shame in admitting that if 1000 plus Israelis turn up in Birmingham then it's quite likely to kick off because of anger against Israel in the local population because of the recent Gaza war.

Absolutely there isn’t. The situation in the round and the violent track record of the visiting “fans” would all have been taken into consideration during the risk assessment.

The local police has a duty of care to local residents, first and foremost. Some of whom will be Jewish Aston Villa fans who are likely appalled at the violent conduct of this group.
Of course that will have formed part of the decision making process.

Again, no-one in authority has announced that this group has been banned because it is made up of Jewish people. They have cited several factors.

In light of yesterday’s violence, do you now agree that the correct decision has been reached or would you still welcome this group and expect the police and Villa fans to deal with the fallout?

Throughout this thread, 1dayatatime, I think I’ve consistently said that this decision was down to risk assessment that would have considered all relevant factors.

'So if as you say the decision to ban MTA fans from the Aston game was purely due to football hooliganism and not based on nationality, religion or other grounds then why didn't the West Midlands Police statement just say that? And why did a local MP campaign to have them banned because they were Israeli'

Why indeed. There is such desperate sweeping under the carpet of the MPs very shit petition whilst desperately focusing on 'The Hooligans'.

We see you.

Play behind closed doors. Blanket fairness/unfairness and everyone is safe.

Did you even bother to look?

'Yeah but no but the poor villa fans!' Conveniently ignoring the fact that the other teams fans aren't all 'thugs'.

Perhaps this could be an opportunity for Birmingham on how to be inclusive and diverse? They could maybe get someone employed to educate the MP and his pals.

Bottom line, in light of yesterday’s violence, do you agree that the decision to ban this group of “fans” was the correct one.

I use “ around fans because no person worthy of that title would be so disrespectful to “their” team and the opposition fans.

But that isn’t how football works, nor has it ever been.

The old firm has a blanket ban on away fans.

Why should Villa be punished and miss out on revenue etc because the opposition they’ve been drawn against has a fanbase that’s violent?

It was not the MP’s decision. It was the decision of the police authority after informed risk assessment.

Are you familiar with Birmingham? England’s second city is inclusive and diverse, has been for generations. As have most British cities.

Honest Bob’s carefully edited video in Handsworth was disingenuous at best. Some might suggest deliberately divisive. Outtakes available online show plenty of white faces. That would be Honest Bob who doesn’t want his children growing up in any sort of ethnic ghetto, Honest Bob who lives in a village in Herefordshire where 165 of 166 residents were white at the last census.

huh?

Im saying to the person who suggested that the game should be played behind closed doors that they’re just wrong.

Why would anyone who didn’t condone such violence associate themselves with a fanbase with such a terrible reputation for violence?
I would not have associated myself with Millwall years ago for that reason.

My apologies, I quoted the wrong person.
That was in reply to this post:

Gloriia · Today 10:49
'Yeah but no but the poor villa fans!' Conveniently ignoring the fact that the other teams fans aren't all 'thugs'.
Perhaps this could be an opportunity for Birmingham on how to be inclusive and diverse? They could maybe get someone employed to educate the MP and his pals

No worries!

I agree, @AppleStrudel16 .
The Aston Villa fans should be allowed to watch their team play. It would be unfair on the team to ban them, too.

Also a huge financial penalty to the club who will be relying on this revenue to help with the FFP rules.

Look if you are not prepared to acknowledge the violence and racism from the MTA fans not sure there's much more to say really.

None of them are.

@MrsSkylerWhite you are very biased - just as others are holding their positions.

Birmingham is really not looking good at the moment - very very scruffy and sad. Certain areas have certainly become very undiverse. And don’t bother with “have you been there?” because I was actually right there two weeks ago .

As for the football - yes, some of the Macabi fans are undoubtedly unpleasant hooligans. But, tell me why the Imam is involved, the MP etc etc. I can tell you at my local derby (which involves huge police presence and fan movement logistics) the local politicians let alone the clergy don’t give a wotsit.

The police in Birmingham were in a difficult position because they clearly received intelligence that things were going to kick off (pun intended) BUT anyone making out it’s JUST about football is simply a liar.

They have all got involved after the event, no?