Israelis should be welcome in Birmingham

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15206171/Parts-Birmingham-no-area-Jews-says-Ed-Miliband-ministers-scramble-allow-Israeli-fans-attend-Aston-Villa-football-match.html

The government need to act on this. West Midlands police have more than enough man power to police a football match with at most 1000 away fans. I watched West Midlands politics today and there was a politician brazenly saying part of the reason for effectively banning the Tel Aviv fans was they there was 'a moral point about Gaza'. We cannot have local councillors, community leaders and MPs agitating for the anti Semitic ban of fans of one of Israel's premier football teams.

We have to face reality want know that a lot of local residents are anti Israel and have taken this opportunity for VIlla Park to become a no go area for Jews.

Let's hope the decision is overturned and quickly.

Last time I was at Anfield a disabled man in a wheelchair was removed and banned for making racist chants at a black player

nobody said oh he can’t be racist because he’s disabled. There are horrible people across the board. We can’t start saying people can’t be banned for bad behaviour because they happen to be part of a specific demographic

I remember that, and it goes to show that while it does happen, it’s usually very well dealt with.

The levels of violence we saw from MTA fans is much rarer.

Biased, how?

Looking at the big picture, as a despairing atheist, I believe that Hamas is hate driven, pure evil and needs to be driven out of Palestine, where innocent civilians must be given autonomy in a free homeland, protected from oppression and violence, initially by the international community.

I believe that some members of the Netanyahu cabinet, its head included, and many illegal settlers are hate driven pure evil.
What happened on 7th October at the Nova Festival and in many settlements on the border was horror of historical proportion. Innocent, majority peaceable people, many in support of a free Palestine, many too young to even know what that meant, were butchered by fiends. If I’m wrong and there is an hell, I hope the perpetrators and their supporters rot there for eternity.

Along with millions around the world, I cried when I watched it all unfold.
Jewish people are amongst the most persecuted in history and must be given autonomy free, safe homeland of Israel.
Amongst millions around the world, I cry when I see footage of children and innocent adult civilians in Gaza being maimed, orphaned, murdered.

That this conflict has spread its hate around the world and people in the UK are taking sides, digging in, refusing to compromise in the name of peace is perhaps inevitable but so distressing.

The decision on how to police a football match is not anti-Semitism.

Absolutely spot on.

Bob? Are you talking about Jenrick? Why are you calling him Bob?

England's 'second city' is rather selectively inclusive and diverse it seems.

'It was not the MP’s decision. It was the decision of the police authority after informed risk assessment'

Not his sole decision but his voice will have been heard, obviously.

Can you just clarify, do you think the violence of the MTA supporters is okay? Do you wish for that to occur in Birmingham?

So who are the Tel Aviv fans going to be fighting with? Aston Villa fans or members of the local population who, I assume, will be out on the streets and not at home if these visiting fans are so threatening?

Because that’s what he calls himself and that is what many of his colleagues at the conference in Manchester called him during televised/radio interviews.

The pretty well known monicker “Honest Bob” came about after allegations of corruption in Government (something to do with development, if I recall correctly).

The Birmingham I’m reasonably familiar with is a very good example of inclusion and diversity, as is London, Liverpool, Manchester and Perth (Scotland) all of which I have reasonable familiarity with. Of course, I can’t be familiar with the entire city but because of friendships and familial connections, I’m familiar with several neighbourhoods in each. In my experience, the places where people are suspicious of the “other” are places with little diversity (such as East Anglia and affluent parts of the NW coast of England where we lived for many years. Barely a black or brown face or anyone other than Christian, particularly in the countryside. Suspicion of people who were different was high.)

Would you expect a local MP, any MP, not to be consulted about decisions that may directly impact their constituents? I trust in senior police officers to have the experience to take all views on board and make a reasonable decision based upon those. Their primary duty is to local residents, home fans and their officers.

This was not an anti-Semitic decision.

Have a great day 😃

Well in Amsterdam it was anyone they could find. They started by holding demonstrations and chanting things like “death to arabs” before the match. They continued that chanting through the match and then after the match started damaging property, and attacking taxi drivers. That then led to violence escalating.

I imagine many would be at home, scared to venture out.
Any who go out looking for trouble should be arrested and tried.

Hopefully the decision will not change and such a potentially dangerous scenario will not arise.

Do you think the organised violence directed at Maccabi fans in Amsterdam was acceptable? If so, why?

Do you think the safety advice for the Aston Villa game was based solely on Maccabi fans’ own behaviour? If you do, could you point to the evidence for that being the only reason.

Or do you think that the safety concerns also arose because anti-Israel protestors were likely to take part in violence? If do you think that was part of it, do you agree with a ban on Israeli supporters on that basis?

Football hooliganism is never ok and should be policed like every other match.

The problem is this team's supporters have all been labelled thugs which is not true. As I said previously Emly Damari one of the released hostages is a fan, should she be banned?

For the trillionth time banning Jews in predominantly Muslim area is not a good look. The MP rattled on about anti Israel crap in his petition.That will have had influence.

Be more inclusive Birmingham. Banning Jews is not ok.

I’m not sure how you can expect another poster to answer your questions as neither they nor you are privy to all of the available intelligence.

Senior police officers were and in consultation with relevant local and international football association representatives with expertise carried out their usual risk assessment.

For the safety of opposing fans, local residents and their officers they made the correct decision.

The only other conclusion is that WM police is institutionally anti-Semitic, which is one hell of a serious accusation.

when enough fans have been problematic enough to be banned ALL fans are
this is normal, it doesn’t matter that other fans are perfectly decent people, this is how it works

Presumably you’re against all stadium bans, including at the old firm Derby?

If the evidence isn’t available why do posters keep saying that the ban is purely because of the travelling fans’ violence? Why do none of those posters supporting the ban acknowledge that disorder may well have been expected from anti-Israel protestors?

I don’t know if there’s institutional antisemitism at work or whether the police, in particular, were just worried about violence from others because of the presence of Israeli supporters. If it’s the second, that’s just not good enough. Football fans shouldn’t be banned on the basis that they’re from Israel.

It’s very telling that the Prime Minister and Home Secretary both came out quickly against this ban.

Also, Jews haven’t been banned. MTA fans have been. Can we stick to the facts please

I don’t know, can’t speak for them. I’ve consistently said that the police authority would have looked at all evidence and intelligence in the round to reach its decision.

All the PM and HS’s rushed statements tell me is that after the horrific assault in Manchester and calls for better protection for Jewish citizens, they are feeling under extreme political pressure.

Personally, I disagree with them, I think the statements only served to escalate an already volatile situation. They ought to have let it remain a purely policing decision but Tbf they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t, obviously, walking a tightrope.

According to reports it was the other team, Hapoel, who threw smoke grenades and flares

That would seem logical as the smoke is red and white - Hapoel team colours.

Ok, speak for yourself alone.

Do you think the prospect of violence from anti-Israel protestors played a part in the decision? If you think it did, was a ban justified on that basis or part-basis?

FWIW I can only see the reference to Amsterdam in the statements from the police that I’ve read to be confirmation that it was wider disorder than by Maccabi supporters that lay behind the decision.

Actually you were quite clear in stating that that "there were entirely legitimate grounds for banning this club that had nothing to do with ethnicity or religion".

The West Midlands Police statement doesn't agree with you- stating that it is due to hate crimes as shown in Amsterdam.

You cite the recent cancellation of the game in Tel Aviv this weekend due to violence as evidence for why the MTA fans should be banned, yet this information only occurred after the WMP had made their statement.

The decision not to allow visitors from Tel Aviv was made by the WMP on the advice of the Birmingham Safety Advisory Group (SAG) on which body sit representatives of Birmingham city council, the British Transport Police and the various emergency services of the West Midlands.

Interestingly earlier this month, the SAG also advised the organisers of a Diwali Mela festival to be held in Handsworth to also be can cancelled due to the recent terror attacks in Manchester.

So it now seems that Hindus as well as Jews are not safe in Birmingham.

I expect it did. As I’ve said several times, the WM police would have looked at all of the evidence before making its decision.

As Iv’e also said, any local residents, Muslim or otherwise out looking for trouble and behaving violently had the match gone ahead should be arrested.

From what I’ve seen of the violence in Amsterdam, I’d ban both groups of supporters from travelling anywhere.
A much stronger stance against any such behaviour, by any group of “fans” (I use that term loosely), is the only way to rid football of violence.

Of course, management will be reluctant to lose revenue.

But it never was a purely policing decision was it? The decision by WM Police to ban Israeli fans was on the advice of the Birmingham Safety Advisory Group (SAG).

Their nationality and religion is irrelevant.

Well yes, the entirely legitimate grounds were violence. Thats enough in and of itself, surely? I’ve also said that all evidence and intelligence would have been taken into account. All obviously includes the views of representatives of local groups in light of the bigger picture.

I expect that the Safety Advisory Group makes decisions in respect of all visiting groups following the same process. This one isn’t special or treated differently. As it should be.

I’m afraid I’m not aware of any decisions regarding Diwali. That is sad. The last thing we need is more inter-religious hate.

Look at the time😱
Have a great afternoon.