Israelis should be welcome in Birmingham

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15206171/Parts-Birmingham-no-area-Jews-says-Ed-Miliband-ministers-scramble-allow-Israeli-fans-attend-Aston-Villa-football-match.html

The government need to act on this. West Midlands police have more than enough man power to police a football match with at most 1000 away fans. I watched West Midlands politics today and there was a politician brazenly saying part of the reason for effectively banning the Tel Aviv fans was they there was 'a moral point about Gaza'. We cannot have local councillors, community leaders and MPs agitating for the anti Semitic ban of fans of one of Israel's premier football teams.

We have to face reality want know that a lot of local residents are anti Israel and have taken this opportunity for VIlla Park to become a no go area for Jews.

Let's hope the decision is overturned and quickly.

Its all they've got.

I just wish they would be honest and say that it's not safe having a 1000 plus Israeli fans arriving in Birmingham with a high Muslim local population.

It is 1000 plus known violent hooligans (again demonstrated by their actions in Tel Aviv yesterday) and yes I agree that the local population being Muslim is a factor why these hooligans may riot and why some in the local population may counter riot. Tensions are high why stoke the fire? I am sharing a link below of what happened in Dublin in the 90s when English hooligans were allowed travel to Ireland for a match during the height of the troubles. Sometimes preventative measures are necessary to keep everyone safe and stop situations like below happen. Are people forgetting that all English clubs were banned from competing in European competitions for 5 years in the 80s because of their history of hooliganism? This is not an anti Israel, antisemitic decision or a unique one.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/25/england-ireland-1995-rioting-international

It’s actually pathetic at this point. I’ve genuinely seen people online saying it’s the opposition fans at the MTA match, who were paid by Hamas to start trouble.

unbelievable.

If they have enough on their plate as you claim, they wouldn’t have cancelled the match when everyone was in the stadium. They’d have cancelled long before that. They didn’t cancel because they had too much on their plate, they cancelled because it was dangerous.. They said there was a risk to life.

The desperation to label the banning of violent football hooligans (which happens to many violent football hooligans including our own) as antisemtic is embarrassing.

Your post is not honest. The statement from West Midlands Police stated:

"This decision is based on current intelligence and previous incidents, including violent clashes and hate crime offences that occurred during the 2024 Europa League match between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv in Amsterdam."

So no mention of intelligence from UEFA. References the hate crime offences in Amsterdam condemned as anti semetic by the Amsterdam Mayor, the Dutch PM and the Dutch King.

So other than the fact that there was violence at a Tel Aviv game this weekend, that happened after the initial decision and statement was made by WMP, what "evidence" do you have to support the claim that it's purely down to football hooliganism.

Alternatively just be honest and state that it's not safe for 1000 Israelis to turn up in Birmingham because of local anger about the war in Gaza would turn violent.

If the banning of MTA from Birmingham is purely due to fears of football hooliganism then why didn't the West Midlands Police statement just say this ?

Or are you trying to use post event information to justify and smoke screen present day prejudices?

Their statement was clear enough.

why do you think this level of violence is acceptable?

So OK if the MTA fans are "known violent hooligans" why didn't the WMP statement just say that- it would have saved a lot of political fallout if they did.

Instead the statement referenced "hate crimes".

From your post on the statement:
This decision is based on current intelligence and previous incidents, including violent clashes and hate crime offences that occurred during the 2024 Europa League match between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv in Amsterdam."

What do you think "previous incidents", "violent clashes" and yes hate crimes as part of that means? to me previous incidents and violent clashes = issue with violent fans. As demonstrated in Tel Aviv yesterday.

Indeed the WMP statement was clear - it referenced hate crimes in Amsterdam condemned as anti semitism by the Amsterdam Mayor, Dutch PM and Dutch King.

But your "intelligence" better than the WMP, the Amsterdam Mayor, the Dutch PM and Dutch King that it's all to do with football hooliganism and nothing to do with anti semitism.

Lastly I just love these "why do you think it's acceptable ..." type comments. It's a clear attempt to divert the topic, to be honest I'm surprised that you didn't use "why do think it's acceptable for children to be killed in Gaza" instead.

Anyway just to clarify- firstly I do not think violence at any football match is acceptable (and one of the reasons I don't attend them) secondly at no point did I ever state that it was.

Lastly to finish off why do you think it is acceptable to ban people from attending sporting events based on their nationality, religion or any other characteristic. Would you for example support for example banning a Pride Event due to concerns over homophobic attacks? Or a Black History event over fears of racist attacks?

They have been banned on the basis of their previous violence. This happens a lot in football.

Hmmm because the violence and hate crimes that occurred in Amsterdam were condemned as anti semitism by the Amsterdam Mayor, Dutch PM and Dutch King.

Or are you suggesting that the Amsterdam Mayor, Dutch PM and Dutch King were wrong and that it had nothing to do with anti semitism and just to do with football hooliganism?

'So OK if the MTA fans are "known violent hooligans" why didn't the WMP statement just say that- it would have saved a lot of political fallout if they did'

This.

The MP revealed his true concerns harping on about his anti Israeli stance. Yes it was allegedly a police decision but they'd have had meetings with everyone who had concerns.

Going forward the MP should stfu until he's got his story straight on what everyone's concerns actually are. The blatant backtracking would be amusing if it wasnt such a serious issue.

Because part of the hooliganism is race related.
These specific fans are fuelled by racial hatred. Not just towards Muslims, they chant at THEIR OWN BLACK JEWISH PLAYER
the ban is not because they are Israeli or Jewish, it is due to the specific behaviour of some of them

Aston Villa has a Jewish supporters club, they aren’t banning Jews

the water is being muddied by the subsequent statements by the local MP and I agree he has done his community a great disservice.

If that was the case then why didn't the West Midlands Police statement just say that? It would have saved them from a lot of political fallout.

Why - because we both know having a 1000 plus Israeli fans turn up in Birmingham is likely to spark violence due to the recent war in Gaza and subsequent anti Israeli sentiment from the local population.

Just be honest...

He really has! If the Israel teams are a bunch of hooligans like we saw in the 1980s that deliberately start fights with opposing teams of hooligans then I get it. But because that MP is Muslim and brought in an issue of Gaza which is happening a long way away from here and should not be a factor in policing a football game, he's politicised it and suggested that the Birmingham Muslim population can't control themselves round Jews.

And that is absolutely abhorrent to the majority of normal people in this country and suggests we have a huge enclave of religious bigots living in Birmingham. He has definitely done his "community" (presumably that means his Muslim community) a bad service.

No, we know that 1000+ MTA fans cannot control themselves. Look at the Derby.

The Tel Aviv derby violence occurred after the decision by the WMP was made and in a statement that did not cite football hooliganism as the reason for banning away fans from attending.

You are using post event information to change the premise of a previous decision.

Violence breaks out in a local derby in Israel. There were, apparently, nine arrests. And suddenly the banning of Israeli supporters is all justified?

That ignores the fact that there is a depressing amount of violence around European football. Here’s a round-up from two years ago: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/25033602/return-hooliganism-european-football/

Yet bans on away fans are rare in England and they include bans put in place by UEFA, but not with this one. UEFA want the Maccabi fans to be able to travel.

So why this ban? None of the reasons given were that Maccabi fans were banned only because of their behaviour.

PPs using the Amsterdam example is particularly revealing. It’s not difficult to find news reports of the sentencing of offenders who attacked Israeli fans and engaged in planned ambushes, hit-and-runs and made antisemitic statements. It’s also reported that some Maccabi fans behaved very badly. But ignoring the violence against them, and its motives, to suggest it was all their own responsibility is very unattractive.

It further reinforces their decision, which was made on the back of Amsterdam.

According to reports out of Israel it was the other team, Hapoel, who threw smoke grenades and flares which is what the injuries were caused by.

According to reports it was the other team, Hapoel, who threw smoke grenades and flares which is what the injuries were caused by.

So how does that reinforce the WMP decision?

Well it would be, wouldn’t it? Anything to twist the truth being that BOTH sets of fans engaged in extreme violence.

Oh, were you there?

All the pics I’ve seen are of red shirts.