Interesting article.

[Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice]

Long but an interesting (if depressing) read.

And before anyone goes 'what about 7/10?', that day was awful and should not have happened. But neither should the last 80 years have happened. And nothing excuses genocide.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/oct/05/gaza-palestine-israel-trump-peace-plan

thanks @Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice an interesting if sad article two things stood out for me

“How is it that the country committing genocide is granted any say in the future of the people against whom it has committed genocide?”

and this bit below because I have been thinking a lot about how if Israel was actually held to account years ago none of this might have happened

“ what would have happened had there been a genuine, robust attempt to end Israel’s military rule. What if, instead of looking the other way, the international community had imposed sanctions on Israel?

What if instead of just endlessly repeating that they believe in the “two-state solution”, states had actually taken tangible action to bring it about?

And so, two years into Israel’s genocide, we are witnessing a willful repetition of the mistakes of the past. This time, some more countries have recognized a “state” with great fanfare but still do nothing to ensure a free and prosperous Palestine. They cannot even ensure the basic protection of Palestinian life”

Thank you that is very informative and interesting.

Clearly, the likely outcome yet again is bleak.

The article is a load of simplistic nonsense.'Magic pill' indeed. Who even talks like that.

'Palestinians live with two omnipresent forms of violence: Israeli violence directly inflicted upon our bodies, land and society'

This bit stood out. What about the 'omnipresent forms of violence' from jihadis that <sorry we aren't allowed to mention it' included the atrocities on Oct 7th?!

Diana Buttu, former spokesperson for the PLO wiki says. Great bit of unbiased reporting from the Guardian. What next, spokesperson for ISIS says they weren't the baddies just misunderstood?

Excellent and informative article, thank you OP. Yes a sad read though.

Very interesting article @Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice, thank you.

As always, just saying it’s a genocide doesn’t actually make it a genocide.
The end is in sight, and as always, it’s in the hands of Hamas.

More anti semitic bollox.

Are you at all excised about conflagrations and ‘genocides’ elsewhere- the slaughter of millions of Christians in Syria for example?

No?

Why would that be I wonder? 😏

Experts on genocide (including a lady who worked on the definition of what happened in Rwanda as a genocide), have defined what is happening in Gaza as a genocide. I will take their word for it. I suspect they know far more about it than you.

And other experts have said it isn't.

Which experts @SharonEllis ?

Look it up. Google is your friend, also discussed extensively here on MN, surprised you missed it. Bored to death of going over same ground.

Google will show me large amounts of experts who believe Israel is committing genocide

do you know more than this man

”All of this has led to the world’s leading specialist on the subject of genocide to declare Israel is carrying out a combination of “genocidal actions, ethnic cleansing and annexation of the Gaza Strip.” Omer Bartov, an Israeli American professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University, describes why he believes Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza right now.

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/12/30/omer_bartov_israel_gaza_genocide

you are holding an increasingly lonely position @SharonEllis

I wouldn't pretend that I couldn't find people saying it is genocide. How utterly bizarre for you to pretend that you can't find the opposing opinion. I mean even M N others have acknowledged it even if trying to delegitimise the people expressing it.

I think Omar Barton sounds very well qualified, I don’t consider that I know more about the subject than:

A UN Special Committee
Medecins Sans Frontieres
Human Rights Watch
Amnesty
B’Tselem etc etc etc
Genocide scholars
Human Rights Lawyers

i didn’t google I am not the one scrabbling for proof

@SharonEllis Why, if you're bored going over the same ground, do you keep appearing on all of these threads, parroting the same illogical and unevolved arguments every single time? Which, quite frankly, I'm incredibly bored with now.

Have they worked on actual genocides before?

I believe so. Why don't you look it up?

You don't need to 'scrabble' but you can't claim to have researched the issue if you don't consider the alternative evidence. No academic or lawyer would accept that.

well I am not seeking to deny a genocide

The academics and the lawyers have said it's genocide..

Tricky when you didn’t name them!! I was talking about the UN report in particular Navi Pillay who worked on the Rwanda investigation, which “experts” are you talking about?

Amnesty who said arrests over pro pal placard wavers were 'disproportionate' seemingly unaware that if something is illegal then arrests are the norm. Medicin Sans frontier whose eminent staff include Drs like Maynard who wears a keffiyeh in one of his speeches or James Smih who has articles published in Aljazeera.

They aren't a very impartial bunch are they.

Genocide includes intent like when nazis rounded people up and murdered them in cold blood to eradicate a population. Civilian deaths because hamas use their people to hide behind are a sad consequence of a conflict.

Some have, some haven't.