Interesting article.

[Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice]

Long but an interesting (if depressing) read.

And before anyone goes 'what about 7/10?', that day was awful and should not have happened. But neither should the last 80 years have happened. And nothing excuses genocide.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/oct/05/gaza-palestine-israel-trump-peace-plan

Oh my God mumsnet, what’s the problem?

“A resolution passed by the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) states that Israel's conduct meets the legal definition as laid out in the UN convention on genocide.”

“Among many other elements, it notes the 50,000 children killed or injured by Israel, as highlighted by UN aid organisation Unicef, which impacts the ability of Palestinians in Gaza to survive as a group and regenerate.

The resolution also highlights the support among Israeli leaders for the forced expulsion of all Palestinians from Gaza, alongside Israel's near-total demolition of housing in the territory.

The IAGS notes the statements by Israeli leaders dehumanising Palestinians in Gaza, characterising them all as the enemy, alongside promises to "flatten Gaza" and turn it into "hell".“

“A number of leading rights organisations, including two Israeli organisations, have also declared they believe Israel is committing genocide.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o

“A United Nations commission of inquiry says Israel has committed genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

A new report says there are reasonable grounds to conclude that four of the five genocidal acts defined under international law have been carried out since the start of the war with Hamas in 2023: killing members of a group, causing them serious bodily and mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to destroy the group, and preventing births.”

“The 72-page document alleges that Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have committed and are continuing to commit four of the five acts of genocide defined under the 1948 Genocide Convention against a national, ethnic, racial or religious group - in this case, Palestinians in Gaza:

• Killing members of the group through attacks on protected objects; targeting civilians and other protected persons; and the deliberate infliction of conditions causing deaths
• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group through direct attacks on civilians and protected objects; severe mistreatment of detainees; forced displacement; and environmental destruction
• Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the destruction of the group in whole or in part through destruction of structures and land essential to Palestinians; destruction and denial of access to medical services; forced displacement; blocking essential aid, water, electricity and fuel from reaching Palestinians; reproductive violence; and specific conditions impacting children
• Imposing measures intended to prevent births through the December 2023 attack on Gaza's largest fertility clinic, reportedly destroying around 4,000 embryos and 1,000 sperm samples and unfertilised eggs”

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8641wv0n4go

Ah yes, the IAGS, an organisation, yes partly of experts but alsl a rag bag of activists and others who fall short of the title 'experts'.

Only 28% of the membership voted on this statement and other members spoke of quashing and bypassing dissent.

For me the first alarm bells rang when I was reading it and the authors referred to the International Court of Justice (“ICJ”) determining in the provisional measures in the South Africa v. Israel case that Israel’s actions were “plausibly genocide.” This is wrong and exposes the authors as not expert at all in the nuances of the law in relation to genoicide or the legal framework for determining it. The problem explained by ex-ICJ president, Joan Donoghue, who clarified the matter here quite some time ago

Sara Brown a genocide scholar, member of the IAGS explains some if the issues here https://www.ajc.org/news/in-the-rush-to-vilify-israel-genocide-scholars-ignore-the-truth

All links easy to find in a minute or two on google and also previously posted and discussed on MN.

The main point the article is making is that in the past 80 years and about to be the same now, the American and European statements during peace talks regarding Palestinian rights and independence have never actually been backed up.

The talk of a two state solution becomes a cover up for inaction in practice. Israel takes over more and more Palestinian land, and oppresses and also kills Palestinians, without any hindrance while all the while the warm words are spoken.

Your posts by the look of it. Blimey ive never seen so many deleted on one page . What did you say? 😳😂

Yet here you are repeating the same shit on a different day.

Again I ask you to tell us who are these experts on genocide you keep referring to? Why can’t you tell us?

I literally put a link from Sara Brown above. Off the top of my heat Elliot Malin, John Spencer, Stefan Talmon and the UK government which based its determination on expert advice.

Thank you,
It is good to hear the voices of ordinary Palestinians. Too often they are excluded.

Only 28% of the membership voted on this statement and other members spoke of quashing and bypassing dissent.

Looking at the link you provided:
“per IAGS, for a resolution to pass, it requires a 2/3 majority from a quorum of at least 20% plus one of all paid-up IAGS members”

So 28% of the membership forming a quorum more than meets the 21% threshold for a quorum vote to pass a resolution.

Looking at the 2/3rds majority (66%) of the quorum to pass a resolution- it appears that out of the 129 quorum members, it was a vote of 108 for the resolution determining genocide vs 11 against.

So of the 129 it was 92% voted for and 8% voted against.

The Elliot Malin associated project is "Scholars for Truth about Genocide".

https://www.scholarsfortruthaboutgenocide.com/

It was launched with much fanfare and amplified by Pro Israeli social media accounts a few days after the IAGS statement was released.

There was a scandal where it was discovered that the group had signed people up to the declaration without their authorization, forcing a number of people to publicly have to ask to be removed.

Its highly biased (for example they call October 7th a genocide) and the site was only registered on the 5th September 2025. Ironically as one of the arguements used againt the IAGS was "anyone could sign up" a lot of the signatories have no specific qualifications in Genocide studies.

Web registration

Person who was added without their permission [cropped out their name]

I have read a few bits by the experts listed by SharonEllis (ty) saying no genocide and I find it fascinating that they only focus on 1 of the 5 acts that constitute genocide in all their discussions of intent:

“In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”

Invariably, they argue that intent for (a) killing members of the group in whole or in part isn’t quite met either directly or by inference.

However, they ignore acts (b) through (e) in their rebuttals. Any one of the acts (a) through (e) constitute genocide.

Contrary to some claims, this definition of genocide has not been recently expanded in order to shoehorn Israel into it. This definition entered into force on 12 January 1951, in accordance with article XIII of the Geneva Convention. (Of which Israel is a member)

Even Stefan Talmon inadvertently agrees it is genocide under (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

He inexplicably downgrades it to a war crime:
”Israel is committing the war crime of using hunger as a weapon of war, which is prohibited under international law,” said Stefan Talmon a prominent international law professor at the University of Bonn.“ in https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/08/01/there-is-no-clear-intent-to-commit-genocide-in-gaza-top-international-law-expert-says

That ruling and clarification were in April 2024 - tens of thousands more people have been killed since then.

On top of that you've got the inflamatory statments made by Smotrich and Ben Gvir as to the ultimate aims of the conflict, as well as Netanyahu rowing back on the peace deal within minutes of it being announced.

You can argue over the technicalities of whether it is genocide or not but there is no doubt that what is happening in Gaza, and to a lesser degree in the West Bank is ethnic cleansing.

Smotrich and Ben Gvir have openly said they want to forcibly relocate what is left of the Gazan population and in the last few weeks have announced yet another land grab in the West Bank which will displace even more Palastinians who have lived there for generations.

Mass expulsion is part of the literal definition of ethnic cleansing.

What Hamas did on 07/10 was horrendous and vile and their stated aim of destroying Israel cannot and should not be tolerated.

But let's not pretend that there are no ultra zionist Israeli's who want, just as desperately, to destroy the Palestinian population and claim the West Bank, Gaza, and even parts of Jordan, Lebanon and beyond for 'Greater Israel'.

Netanyahu made it quite clear, even before the 7/10 attack that the ultimate aim was 'Greater Israel' when he held that map up at the UN in September 2023.

The hypocrisy of ultra zionists and those that support them is breathtaking, given their own paramilitary history with the Haganah, Irgun and Lehi and the actions of settlers in the West Bank with the tacit support of the Israeli government.

Ordinary Israeli's and the Jewish diaspora deserve to live in peace, as do ordinary Palastinians.

Neither group is to blame for the atrocities extremists commit in their names, but only one of those groups is being punished with tens of thousands of deaths.

I found this group to be totally bizarre. Quickly set themselves up for the express purpose of saying nothing to see here then pro Israel people without question go ah yes, see we were right no genocide. In a matter of days they formed a group, supposedly investigated and studied all relevant material and release a report and pro Israel people go yeah sounds legit. The UN commission spent almost 2 years investigating and compiling their report and people go nah, don't believe them, I'll go with the hastily set up group of randomers instead.

In what other conflict would see this level of madness? This desperation to cling onto what they believe against so much evidence to the contrary. It's so absurd it would be funny if it weren't so concerning. Common sense left the building aong time ago it would seem.