Hamas won't disarm - that is the barrier to peace

[mids2019]

So Hamas probably will reject a peace plan that has been globally accepted including the PA as it refused to disarm. Hasan fighters would rather carry on basically a suicidal guerrilla campaign rather than lay down arms for a peace so many right minded people desperately want.

Don't Hamas realise they will lose Gaza and effectively their 'fighting' force will be groups of jihadis who engage in occasional small arms fire that in all likelihood result in their deaths? What sort of mind set does this group have where they are willing to prolong a vicious war with no thought to the people they are meant to stand for?

Hamas hope is grounded only in the West being weak and applying more pressure on Israel and conceding to the terrorist Hamas. If the West more fully backs Israel now then Hamas may lose that one deranged hope and possibly their doomed war may end.

Hamas don't use reason they way we would do, they will fight to the death and won't care if they take most of their people with them. They will not be seen to lose. Their aim it to eliminate all Jews and Israel, it's difficult to fathom that depth of hatred.

engage in occasional small arms fire that in all likelihood result in their deaths?

They don’t care, because they’ll be welcomed into paradise by 72 virgins yadda yadda.

What sort of mind set does this group have where they are willing to prolong a vicious war with no thought to the people they are meant to stand for?

They are a Jihadi death cult and are absolutely fine martyring their own population. That’s the nature of what they do.

It is indeed, even the Guardian, admit 'armed' resistance is part of Gazan DNA and they view the right to continue their struggle i.e. killing Jews as part of their heritage and culture. If peace ever comes about that mentality has to somehow change but as Manchester shows the mindset of terrorism is widespread and can be gklobalised.
One thing that does need to change is that going Gazan men aren't continually radicalized to think this is the only way of life (and death) but that may take a long rime.

Well yeah because there’s no guarantee of a palestinian state in the peace plan.

There was a guarantee of cessation of hostilities and Israeli withdrawal. ....and yet they refuse 😕

Because they don't want that. Their primary goal is to eliminate the whole of Israel, by methods demonstrated on the 7th October. At the moment, the situation there is "kill or be killed" which is totally horrendous.

I sympathise massively with the plight of civilians in Gaza but when I see someone brandishing "from the river to the sea" slogan I feel total despair.

There is a reason that even the Arab states don’t come out in support of the situation. Hamas are radicalised lunatics and use the Palastinian population as human shields and bait.

I think any (any even small) hope that Hamas would disarm, was destroyed when Netanyahu said that Israel would use force if necessary to prevent a Palestinian state.

Given most of the international community is pro a two-state solution and has declared the state of Palestine, perhaps a compromised solution is needed. This would mean proper international assurances that could be relied on that if Israel tried to use force to prevent a two-stage solution, If certain conditions were met, that other countries would come to their military aid. That way they have no weapons themselves, but a visceral attacks them with the intent of stopping a two-state solution, someone else will step in on their behalf.

I thought it was because Netanyahu said he wouldn’t support a Palestinian state.

It really depends on the terms of the deal whether they are unreasonable or not, wouldn’t you say?

Absolutely this . Naive British lefties are supporting an Islamic terrorist organisation that other Muslim countries wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Not only do Hamas actively want to kill Jews and continue to attack Israel they also actively want the death of Gazan civilians (preferably by Israel but it doesn't matter if they also do it) and the further destruction of Gaza.

By rejecting the peace deal and continuing to fight to the end they can ensure further Gazan civilian deaths and the greater the number of Gazan civilian deaths and destruction of Gaza then the greater the level of liberal Western support and so on.

If the pro Palestinian lobby genuinely genuinely cared about Gazan civilians and Gaza (rather than just hating Jews and Israel) then they would be actively protesting for Hamas to accept the peace deal and ceasefire.

Whatever happened to "ceasefire now"....

They are a jihad death cult and sadly have support in the UK.

We should all shout free Palestine from the jihad death cult. There is no hope for Palestinians with a death cult running the show.

This.

Arabs understand that Hamas are a jihadi death cult but stupid people here don't appear to realise that the best way for Palestinians is getting rid of hamas not enabling them to continue in their aims.

This is what Hamas do to Pro Palestinian westerners

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13088630?app-referrer=deep-link%3C/a%3E

Hamas probably won't disarm, but then Netanyahu probably won't withdraw completly from Gaza and the West Bank. Unfortunately the two factions are hell bent on destroying each other and innocent citizens pay the price.

This was didn't start on October 7th and wlll not end any time soon.

The best we can hope for is an end to current massacre of Palestinians.

Yes no 19 was very wishy- washy. I can’t see them ever agreeing to something that says ‘At some undefined point in the future, when Israel has decided the conditions have been met and they’re happy to do so, a discussion about a Palestinian state can be had but we recognise that that is your goal’. They might as well just write, ‘We know you want it but it’s never going to happen’

Yep, especially when that's backed up by Israel saying firstly they will not be a Palestinian state, and secondly, they are required use force to stop it.

It's not unreasonable to expect Hamas to disarm. But it is unreasonable to expect a state, with a powerful well-armed neighbour, who has vowed to destroy you, to be defenceless. Isn't that the reason people say Israel is armed to the hilt so much? There needs to be a way to stop the vulnerability for Palestinians, but without the likes of Hamas being able to use those weapons for terrorism.

Of course Israel would not agree to any deal with the integrity of Gaza (or the West Bank) was guaranteed by a third party, because that interferes with their plan of forcibly ensuring no 2 state solution. And most third parties would feel reluctant to give that a guarantee because it means the potential of war with Israel in the future.

By the terms of the 'deal' and Netenyahu's statements since, It's clear to me that it's been either designed or manipulated to fail. Even if Hamas agree, they don't have all the hostages, Muslim brotherhood have some and they've rejected the deal. Even if Hamas were enthusiastic for it, the likelihood of them being able to locate all hostages, including those that are not under their control, in a warzone, is close to zero.

So whether they accept the deal and fail because the timelines don't work, or because some on the ground don't accept it, or they outright reject it, Israel will use that failure to justify stepping up its campaign of genocide.

It's really grim.

Why would you reward a state for what they did on 10/7? Tbh they have lost this war (that they started) and refuse to concede.

IMO the conflict is so deep and so complicated that its pretty much impossible to resolve; however, if hamas surrendered/ got eliminated at least there would be a chance to save lives of countless innocent people in Gaza and to let them have a life without death and destruction at every step.

Maybe temporarily but fundamental changes are also needed ren Israel for lasting peace. One side alone cannot fix this.

I think it’s possible to be anti-Hamas and anti-Israel (specifically anti the government not the existence of Israel) and be disappointed by elements of the peace plan. Returning Gaza to a version of its pre-7/10 state re its relationship with Israel is not a win and is not the road to actual lasting peace. Trump’s regen. plan seems unlikely to benefit the people of Gaza who have already lost so much. So it’s okay for people to continue to criticise and question what is going on. If Israel want to minimise the risk of 7/10 happening again, they have to change too.

re Hamas accepting the plan, I think it is almost impossible for them to do that at this point. A lot of their top people have been killed, anyone stepping into that role may not be able to ‘pull rank’ to the point where they can actually stop groups within Gaza from continuing to fight to the bitter end. It’s likely that these disjointed cells of terrorists will fight to the bitter end and the people of Gaza will pay the price once again for being stuck in the middle. Or worse they will be radicalised because they’ve lost everything and feel they have nothing to live for anyway.

Firstly, because the core of what the Palestinians are asking for - statehood - is a moral right, and should have been given a century ago.

Secondly, because there are many modern states that came about as a result of violence and that we accept now. Why single out Palestine just because it doesn’t align with the geopolitical needs and the strategy of the West?

Imagine if we went back and got rid of all the modern states borne out of violence? There would be no USA and there would certainly be no Israel. Let’s not forget that there were Zionist militias that were deemed terrorist by the British and were rewarded with a state.

Yes, not only have the Palestinians shown themselves to be deeply radicalised AGAINST living peacefully alongside Israel (that includes the West Bank btw), when they were given the opportunity of creating their own autonomous territory in Gaza complete with infrastructure to create their own economy, they promptly destroyed the infrastructure to make themselves aid dependent (so their leaders could syphon it off) and voted in a terrorist entity with a charter to annihilate Israel to govern it!

That was before Oct 7th, the atrocities of which were widely celebrated and praised to God from video footage of civilians including at the deranged funeral pantomimes of Sheri Bibas and her babies, and 83 year old Oded Lifshitz as well as the hostage releases.

Prior to 2005 they had multiple opportunities to declare their own State which were rejected as they wanted ALL the land as one State so they could rid it of Jews.

I don't quite understand why their Western supporters don't actually listen to Palestinians themselves as they seem to be so keen to preach that they are giving them a voice. There is an extremely enlightening YouTube series called The Ask Project where they are asked their opinions. These are West Bank Palestinians btw.

Let's be totally honest here for once as there is plenty of evidence for the truth.

The Palestinians have never wanted their own State. They want Israel and the Jewish people to be eradicated from it. They know they can never achieve that militarily and it seems no Arab countries are willing to attack Israel while it is strong as they learnt their lesson the last 4 times.

This current conflict was connived to demonise Israel as a genocidal rogue State of evil Jews where Hamas deliberately set the stage for their own people to be killed as human sacrifices to make Israel a pariah on the world stage, decimating it's economy by dragging out the war and reducing access to military weapons (hence the pressure on Western governments to refuse to sell arms) and when it was weak enough, other Arab countries like Egypt and Syria and also Iran may have joined the fray. Israel knew all this but they were quite literally damned if they didn't respond to Oct 7th and damned if they did.

It's likely if Trump hadn't got in as US President, the above would have played out as. Biden's administration was responsible for delaying the IDF operations in Rafah which gave Hamas 4 months to turn it into one big booby trap. Biden's presidency was basically Obama's 3rd term and Harris would have been his 4th!

https://www.hudson.org/foreign-policy/biden-turn-against-israel-michael-pompeo-elan-carr

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/were-living-through-barack-obamas-third-term

https://nypost.com/2023/10/09/barack-obamas-silent-on-israel-war-because-he-made-it-possible

Lots of states have been born through violence, the key distinction here is that they won.

If you started a war you could not win, you cannot expect to be given control of said territory. It just doesn’t happen.

I think I’d be reluctant to give up my limited means of defending myself to trust Netanyahu and the IDF would keep their side of the bargain.