Hamas ‘death culture’ beyond comprehension, says founder’s son

[Twiglets1]

Hamas’s embrace of “death culture” is beyond comprehension for much of the world, Mosab Hassan Yousef, the eldest son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef, the founder of the terrorist group, told JNS on Tuesday.

“It is not just the West, it’s also the East. It is beyond understanding that some people are willing to sacrifice human life for political gains, or worse for financial gains. I am a living example of this. My father had to choose between his eldest son and the cause and he chose the cause,” said Yousef.

“There is no parent in the world that would go into a fight that would put their own children in harm’s way. Hamas did the opposite. They went and dragged Israel in the most brutal fight of our time, knowing children would pay the price. This shows you their hypocrisy,” he continued.

“It’s the same game with pro-Palestinians worldwide. Everybody cries for the children on one hand, and on the other they are pushing Palestinian indoctrination which leads to the death of children. And then when children die, they blame Israel,” he added.

www.jns.org/hamas-death-culture-beyond-comprehension-says-founders-son/

I share your mistrust of strongly religious people and in the same order. I wouldn't describe myself as anti religion but I don't trust extremists of any position really. For example, I'm a feminist but don't agree with those that take an extreme position on feminism either. Everything in moderation (including moderation, as Oscar Wilde supposedly quipped).

Re people being born Muslim, I assumed many people were. What is very clear is most people stick with the religion they are born into and don't question it's the right one - whether that's Christian, Muslim or whatever.

And it was pointed out to me, (fair comment) that people born into atheist families like myself tend to stay atheist too.

I think the difficulty with Islamophobia is that it also includes people ‘perceived’ to be Muslim. For example, lots of Sikhs were abused after 9/11 because people didn’t know the difference and there was an increase in abuse toward Arab Americans and South Asian people because people assumed they were Muslim and therefore terrorists. So I don’t think you can ignore the racist element to Islamophobia - it’s not just about religion: it’s also sadly about how you look.

It just often seems to come back to it in our discussions hence my conclusion re your views. I’ve offered other ideas which you’ve dismissed (which is fine - happy to agree to disagree) but glad to hear you’re not closed off to other reason!

How much research have you done into antisemitism? Which writers have you read?

Its very hard to unpick I think.

I agree about assuming based on appearances. I used to date an Indian guy who was always assumed to be Muslim and got stopped EVERY SINGLE TIME at the airport. He was actually a member of a really small Hinduish sect... and very chill about it. Said he totally understood why it was that way, and left extra time. Never got annoyed.

But was he being judged for the colour of his skin? Or because of the colour of his skin was he being judged to be more likely to be a Islamic terrorist? And was that indeed fair enough? And how is this really any different to racial profiling in the US?

I need to think more on this.

Academically, I studied it and other forms of racism at Uni. Some time ago but lots of interesting discussions stick with me.

Book wise: Jews don’t Count (read and watched) - I feel mixed about recommending this. It’s a good overview or intro to the issue in the UK with plenty of easily digestible info but I cannot stand DB talking about racism - I think it undermines the message having him talk about it.

Then a friend recommended People love dead Jews by Dara Horne which is a harder read but I’d highly recommend.

I’m currently reading East West Street (P Sands KC) which is nonfiction but talks about how the laws around genocide formed post WW2. I haven’t finished but it’s great so far.

I’m not sure if this was an attempt to catch me out but happy to hear other recommendations? I’d recommend One Day Everyone Will be Againsy This by Omar El Akkad.

No not to catch you out. Just trying to understand your perspective. Im not talking about the 2WW, genocide etc. I mean modern antisemitism. David Hirsh on the Livingstone formulation would be a good start, and anything else by him. Also Dave Rich, Everyday Hate. Anything by Alan Johnson, including the Fathom essays edited by him. Hadley Freeman is always worth reading.

Fair enough. A couple of these names sound very familiar. Poss uni reading lists but I’ll take a look at it all as some I’m sure are more recent (or have written stuff more recently!)

I only mentioned my current book because it’s written by a leading Jewish KC who has worked on various war crime cases and has a lot of interesting things to say about this conflict. Always keen to give him a shout out.

FWIW I don't think all criticism of Israel is antisemitic either, it's just that the forum here definitely was (and seems to have settled down a bit, thank god). I've just done an advanced search for "Israel" posts on CITME for the days immediately following 7/10. All that comes up is a thread entitled "To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?" (started on 10/10), which is weird because there was definitely a LOT more activity than that. I know I wasn't dreaming what I saw. I can only assume that a lot of threads have been retrospectively deleted because they were finally recognised for what they were.

Also yes, people say money is the root of all evil but it seems to me that religion is worse. The "in the name of God" rallying cry has driven most religions, over the centuries, to what would now be classed as terrorism; currently, it seems to be radical Islam's turn to take the world stage for that sort of thing.

I thought everyone was joking about not knowing people can be born Muslim! I don't understand this... So, for someone born in (say) Indonesia or Saudi Arabia, did you think they were sort of religiously neutral until a certain age and then got converted to Islam? I'm not poking fun, I'm just really curious about this because everyone on this thread seems clever and articulate, and I might have missed something I don't know about.

Radicalisation is obviously something that happens later in life, although from what I've read it seems to be encouraged from childhood in places like Gaza.

Yes! Me! I thought kids just got indoctrinated as they grew up until they made some token commitment when they came of age/ old enough to understand.

Sorry 😞

Don't apologise @dairydebris 😍 I was just curious!

It’s rather blinkered to say no "western democracy" is under attack;

What are you on about?

Russia and Ukraine are at war.

Israel faces an entirely difference situation in that it has had rockets fired at it since 2001, to the current date. Constantly. Hundreds of suicide bombings. For 25 years.

To the extent that they built the iron dome to (a) protect their citizens and (b) prevent them having to retaliate.

It would be like Belgium launching rockets into France for 25 years.

No western democracy faces what Israel does.

I'll tell you what Ukraine hasn't done - Run undercover raids on Russian border lands, displacing Russian residents and destroying their farms. Fired barrages into Russian town centres, schools and hospitals. Demonised and punished Russian citizens for being Russian. Murdered ambulance crews. Ignored international opinion while seeking international support. Claimed divine right to conquer Russian territories

Israel's acting more like Russia, insofar as comparisons can be drawn.

Well, of course they haven’t, because Ukraine aren’t the invading force in this conflict.

But if they were the invading force, I wouldn’t haven’t a hard time believing that this sort of thing would be happening at all.

You know that Ukrainian forces have committed war crimes, right?

Far more of the war crimes being committed by Russia, but still, no country or its forces are above or can avoid this sort of thing.

I say that in no judgement of Ukraine. But it is what happens in war.

I'll tell you what Ukraine hasn't done - Run undercover raids on Russian border lands, displacing Russian residents and destroying their farms. Fired barrages into Russian town centres, schools and hospitals. Demonised and punished Russian citizens for being Russian. Murdered ambulance crews. Ignored international opinion while seeking international support. Claimed divine right to conquer Russian territories
Israel's acting more like Russia, insofar as comparisons can be drawn.

Well thats because Ukraine is fighting the Russian Army where the Russian Army is- ie on its own territory.

Israel is fighting Hamas where it finds Hamas. Hiding amongst Palestinian civilians.

Russias military is known to be absolutely brutal. It still doesn't hide among its own wives and children.

Its hardly Israels fault that Hamas embeds itself into civilian infrastructure. Its by Hamas' design that civilians die. They are the necessary sacrifices.

Well said @dairydebris

Agree

Its hardly Israels fault that Hamas embeds itself into civilian infrastructure. Its by Hamas' design that civilians die.

Israel is partly at fault for building a massive wall around Gaza manned with machine guns so that no one can leave except a few on work permits (all cancelled on 7 Oct), sending Palestinians displaced from the West Bank and E Jerusalem there for generations such that it was the most densely populated region on Earth consisting of a few cities linked by sprawling refugee camps.

There is no space for Hamas (or anyone) to build military type infrastructure anywhere but underground.

Then once the bombing and siege of Gaza began, the army’s orders were to kill on sight any man, woman or child approaching the buffer zone inside the Gaza wall. Israel hasn’t let any of the civilians out. Even the thousands of people we have detained, taken out of Gaza for questioning and found to be uninvolved civilians with no links to Hamas, we have then sent them back into Gaza all during the war. Even the few thousand children allowed out for medical care, we require be returned to Gaza once well enough before we allow the next group of children out that need life saving care. The complaints that Egypt or Jordan won’t allow these children to stay after hospital discharge is because Israel requires their return before letting out more injured children.

Then we used 2,000lb bombs on these dense urban areas which is an illegal use of these heavy bombs as they are the polar opposite of precision targeting to minimise civilian casualties.

So, forgive me but I do think it’s a bit hypocritical of us to pretend that the civilian deaths are all by design of Hamas when we actively put uninvolved civilians (even children) in the war zone that is Gaza, prevent them from leaving by the use of lethal force, and then use heavy bombs that have a kill radius of three football fields. To me, it is a complete disregard for innocent human life in the pursuit of terrorists.

According to the news yesterday, some 83% of the dead were innocent civilians. That’s not totally by Hamas design, that is also due to the way Israel is fighting this war. In the news today, once Netanyahu feels like he can declare victory, Gazans will be forced to leave by a combination of Gaza being an uninhabitable pile of rubble in a pool of sewage and a pittance payment of $5k which would just about cover airfare somewhere…so they’ll be destitute and homeless but the objective of the far right will be met another step towards a cleansed Eretz Yisrael.

Even when Gaza winds up, I fear that Netanyahu will have already restarted a war with Lebanon or Syria or Iran by then. Israel and the US have pushed a motion through the UN to withdraw the peacekeepers in Lebanon by December 2026 leaving Lebanon vulnerable. We have not stopped bombing Lebanon nor have we fully withdrawn in violation of the ceasefire. In addition, we have occupied parts of Syria and have been bombing even close to the capital of Damascus. Iran is being sanctioned as we speak and that’s going to cause a reprisal which will be another excuse to attack them again. Or maybe I am feeling too cynical and disheartened this morning.

Forever war is the proven way to keep him in power and he is happy to sacrifice not just our hostages but also generations of the youth of Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and Iran to satisfy his personal ambitions.

Just like we all knew there can be no peace with the leaders of Hamas- who are mostly dead at this point. I also think there can be no peace with the current leaders of Israel and I am bizarrely hoping for the IDF to coup Netanyahu and send him to a prison cell in The Hague to face justice for his crimes against humanity. And I have my whole life always thought of military coups as terrible actions always leading to a dictatorship. But honestly, unless certain politicians suffer heart attacks or strokes, arrest and trial are the only way I see this cycle of war ending.

That’s not totally by Hamas design, that is also due to the way Israel is fighting this war. Thank you for this, and for the painful details you filled in. Also agree with you about Netanyahu - also painfully.

Thanks, too, for the reminder about Eretz Yisrael. My schooldays were long ago, but doesn't it include parts of Syria and Lebanon? I'll get told off if I mention 'land grab' again; maybe 'biblical reclamation' would be more acceptable (probably not). That Sword of David is a vicious weapon, bestowed specifically for the subjugation of other peoples to Israel. Netanyahu claims the right to wield it.

It's enlightening to read your comment, @LoremIpsumCici. But, most of all, it's harrowing.

The exact bounds of Eretz Yisrael (Greater Israel) are based on three different grants from God ( Genesis, Numbers and Deuteronomy) that include parts (or in a few cases the entirety) of Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq. Different Zionist parties tend to adopt one of these three grants as their preferred definition.

In modern politics Greater Israel is often used and received as meaning modern Israel + E Jerusalem, Samaria & Judea(West Bank), Gaza and Golan Heights. Which is the smallest parcel of lands of all the interpretations and so more palatable than the wider definitions of how large Israel should be.

All of what you say, Hamas knew, and they still started this war. So yes, I do believe its by their design.

Where BN's desire to defend and protect Israel / himself begins and ends - a huge problem. Neither him nor Hamas give one shit for Palestinian life.

Surely it would be better for a 2ss if Hamas surrendered, taking away BN main reason for war, and hopefully allowing for more moderate parties to come to power? With both gone, theres a chance, no? Thats what we have to hope for?

I agree. Surely most of us on here should want the same things.

Hamas to surrender & release all hostages so BN no longer has any justification for continuing the war (none that would acceptable to his allies anyway including -surely - Trump who wants to be seen as a peacemaker).

The war to end and a more moderate group to rule Gaza.

BN to be voted out at the elections in 2026 and a more moderate leadership voted in.

These things have to happen first before a 2ss remotely realistic (in my opinion).

Agree. There IS a possible pathway to peace, even though I know its hard to see.

Maybe I'm naive, and I'll accept it on this one occasion- but surely this Kushner / give Palestinians 5k plan can't happen? Surely its another way to apply pressure? Hamas, just fgs let it go and hand over to Fatah, the PA, I know theres huge problems with both, but surely any way to keep Palestinian futures in their own hands, until safer hands come along? Hamas is fucking Gazans over now, and forever more. ( I know Israel is too, but Israel has plausible deniabilty. Hamas has no reason whatsoever to go on. )

I feel like time is running out, but there is a possible pathway.

By the sounds of things, it’s ’too late’ for the people of Gaza anyway. The US/Israel plans that are being drip fed to us appear to be totally lining up with the hopes of the right wing elements of the Israeli government/disaster capitalism. I think Hamas surrendering now (which, I think realistically, radical Islamist terrorists just aren’t going to do) won’t change the plan to flatten the rest of Gaza and build some version of Dubai … well, that’s how they’ll sell it but it will be on the graves of Palestinians and the ruins of their homes and the Palestinian people who live there will be effectively forced to leave. I imagine at least some of those Palestinians will feel the need to retaliate to what looks scarily like ethnic cleansing and the cycle of terror continues indefinitely. Meanwhile, everyone will focus on the evil of radical islam (fair) but not question why it keeps coming back stronger.

You’d think we’d learn from our ‘successful’ war on terror. The Taliban are ruling Afghanistan and we gained ISIS out of it. But let’s repeat that behaviour and it’ll work out…

I don't think this 5k proposal will actually happen.
(But then again, I know I can be naive sometimes).

Anonymous sources familiar with the process told The Washington Post that key aspects of the proposal were designed “to make real” US President Donald Trump’s expressed hope to turn Gaza into the “Riviera of the Middle East.”

The plan is based on financial models developed by a DC-based team from the Boston Consulting Group — which also worked with the main American contractor on the US- and Israel-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

The White House and State Department declined to comment to the Post, while BCG said the work on the trust plan had not been expressly approved and that two senior partners behind the modeling were subsequently fired.

www.timesofisrael.com/trump-said-weighing-plan-to-pay-gazans-to-leave-put-strip-under-us-run-trusteeship/

You could be right, I know.

But there's just so many real, logical problems with it.
Where will Gazans go? The world won't abide images of thousands squished into camps. I know you'll say the world abides it now, but for now its under plausible deniabilty of war.
What would happen in the WB? The violence would surely escalate? More war? Then more displacement of those Palestinians too? Where will they go? Would Egypt / Jordan / Syria accept them? Would they with financial incentives from the profit makers of Gaza Rivera?
Who would even want any part of this tech hub anyway? Under constant threat of violence? Profiting those holding rightful owners of the land? Theres plenty more attractive waterfront elsewhere surely?
And what happens when Democrats / moderate Israeli parties get into power? Will they allow this to continue? Who wpuld invest in such a plan?

Anyway, this amounts to verbal diarrhea... this much to say I can't see it happening. But I know I could be wrong.