Israeli military’s own data indicates civilian death rate of 83% in Gaza war

[GladioliGreen]

Utterly shocking, an astonishingly high civillian death toll. As of May this year only 8,900 fighters were killed.

That apparent ratio of civilians to combatants among the dead is extremely high for modern warfare, even compared with conflicts notorious for indiscriminate killing, including the Syrian and Sudanese civil wars.

www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

It actually doesn't. What it's data says is that 17% of those killed are known to the Israelis as militants. It doesn't then say that the rest are civilians, that's the Guardian's rather poor reporting.

https://x.com/EFischberger/status/1958554950369198159

Exactly.

Why is it bogus? He doesn't give a reason for it.
As an ex IDF sergeant surely he has an insight into the numbers.

Same with the IDF as it states in the article
The Israeli military did not dispute the existence of the database or dispute the data on Hamas and PIJ deaths when approached for comment by Local Call and +972 Magazine. When the Guardian asked for comment on the same data, a spokesperson said they had decided to “rephrase” their response.

A brief statement sent to the Guardian did not directly address questions about the military intelligence database.

It said “figures presented in the article are incorrect”, without specifying which data the Israeli military disputed. It also said the numbers “do not reflect the data available in the IDF’s systems”, without detailing which systems.

It will be interesting to see what data is produced that will show why it is bogus.

Given that one of the journalists they murdered and claimed was Hamas was ten at the time they said he was a militant (Hamas don’t allow kids go join) I would take the 8,900 with a pinch of salt. If they killed any of us tomorrow they would find some document to show we are all Hamas - maybe write the days in the week in Arabic or something equally damning.

@GladioliGreen
Hasn’t this been the suspicion all along?

The article states Israel accepts that the Hamas figures and that they also do not include thousands of people buried under rubble. This was also suspected by academic studies.

I previously read that after 7/10, the decision was taken by to allow increased number of civilians to be killed when targeting a Hamas operative. This article links to another confirming this approach:

Another intelligence officer said that more recently in the conflict, the rate of permitted collateral damage was brought down again. But at one stage earlier in the war they were authorised to kill up to “20 uninvolved civilians” for a single operative, regardless of their rank, military importance, or age.

They also chose to attack Hamas operatives according to one of the links when they were at home with their families. They also chose to use dumb bombs because- according to the links, it was cheaper than more expensive weapons.

It’s one thing staying that this is what happens when you fight in a city, and another to take little care about civilians being killed.

It’s revolting, the idf and all those who defend their actions are despicable

You are saying that they may have accidentally killed more militants? These are all targeted attacks no? They know who they are targeting with each and every bomb dropped, they have constant drones everywhere, how would they not know who they have killed?

We will be unpicking what happened in this war for decades. What will be the resolution be for Palestinians driven out from and killed in the region if it found that they have been victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing?

It is such a disgrace that the west does not feel prepared to stop nor influence Israel.

I strongly agree with you. There is no more defense for their actions.

I can only conclude that those who continue to support the military offensive of the IDF in Gaza are supporters of genocide. They d
may not think they are supporting or condoning genocide but they are. Shameful.

know who they are targeting with each and every bomb dropped

They're also fighting on the ground, where you return fire if you're engaged.

The IDF denies a report claiming that figures from a “classified military intelligence database” indicate five out of six Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip during the war were civilians, saying that the authors of the story lack “fundamental military understanding.”

The report cites intelligence sources as saying that the total number of terror operatives killed is likely higher than the number in the database, because it does not include Hamas and PIJ operatives who were killed but not identified by name; Gazans who participated in the fighting and were not members of the two groups; or Hamas members who were not members of its military wing.

In January, the military said 20,000 terror operatives had been killed, and yesterday it updated that number to over 22,000. Hamas authorities say 62,000 people in the Strip have been killed during the war.

In May, IDF officials said that the combatant-to-civilian deaths ratio has remained relatively the same throughout the war, with two to three civilians killed for every dead Hamas terror operative.

Responding to the Guardian, the IDF says, “The figures presented in the article are incorrect and do not reflect the data available in the IDF’s systems.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-denies-report-claiming-that-its-own-database-found-that-vast-majority-of-gaza-dead-were-civilians/

Exactly.

Let me get this right, the Guardian interprets this as all those killed in combat should be known and named to the idf and identified as known hamas terrorists? Other factions and terrorists should be left alone?

So if someone is running towards you with a gun shooting you can only engage if they have a hamas name tag on?! Did we know all the nazi's names in WW2 before they were shot in combat? Nope. What a non story.

'You are saying that they may have accidentally killed more militants? These are all targeted attacks no?'

They aren't just sat in IDF HQ firing rockets no. They are on the ground in combat killing terrorists yes.

They may be on the ground but there are huge airstrikes with mass casualties. One of the worst was when the ceasefire was broken when over 400 people were killed in a few hours. Most were killed in heavily built up residential areas and buildings were people were taking shelter

Very hard to say they are targeted strikes on militants.

Someone running towards you with a gun is not a civilian.

A child sleeping in a tent is.

civilian" specifically refers to anyone not a member of a country's armed forces or directly participating in hostilities.(Ie running at you with a gun)

By 2 November – 26 days into the bombardment – the Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor (EHRM) estimated that Israel had dropped 25,000 tonnes of bombs on 12,000 targets.

This is an interesting fact I think. 26 days in 12,000 targets yet more than 18 months in Israel can only name less than 9000 militants they have killed. What were these targets? Clearly not militants known to the IDF anyway.

So what have they been dropping all of the bombs on then? In 26 days they hit 3000 more 'targets' than militants they have killed in more than 18 months. There has been bombs dropped pretty much every day. On who if they aren't militants?

By November 10th that goes up to 15000 'targets' the IDF say that they hit. That's 6000 more 'targets' than militants killed 2 months into the conflict.

They can only name 9000 militants they have killed but in January, the military said 20,000 terror operatives had been killed, and yesterday it updated that number to over 22,000.

Just because they can't name them all doesn't mean they have only killed 9000 militants.

The foulest behaviour we have yet seen, and that’s saying something.

So they don't know who they are but know that they are militants?

I thought we were told that they dress as civillians, hiding among civillians. So these people dressed as civillians, who they don't know the identity of are definitely militants? And you can tell this after they have been blown to pieces by the 15000 bombs dropped in the first few months of conflict?

They don't necessarily know their names of people participating in hostilities.

Is that really a surprise to anyone?

You know it if they are attacking you I guess or approaching you aggressively with weapons.

Abhorrent but completely unsurpriding. Israel has made it quite clear that they're deliberately targeting civilians and children. https://theconversation.com/israels-war-on-gaza-is-deliberately-targeting-children-new-un-report-252398

I'm disappointed in the Guardian endorsing this tosh, there goes any remaining credibility.

Dated March10 and a different topic to the one under discussion. Would have been more appropriate to have started a new thread about this - in March.