Israeli security cabinet expected to approve Gaza takeover plan

[Twiglets1]

Sky News report that Israel is expected to approve Benjamin Netanyahu's plan for a takeover of Gaza when the security cabinet meets later today.

According to the Times of Israel, the full cabinet is due to convene at 6pm local time, 4pm in the UK.

Israeli media are reporting that the plan could potentially span over five months, and it is likely to be aimed at destroying Hamas and pressuring it to free remaining hostages.

While some ministers have been critical of the plan, reports suggest Netanyahu is likely to secure a majority of support.

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-latest-hostages-famine-aid-hamas-idf-war-palestine-state-live-13398805

I think you need to read more about how Palestinians were treated by Israel before 7/10 and why Hamas would be an ‘attractive’ option. I’m not justifying their behaviour but this has to be taken into account if peace is the aim.

People are more vulnerable to extremist views (whatever the source) when you start treating them as ‘others’. Downplaying or ignoring Israel’s role is how this will all carry on. Hamas may go but they will be replaced immediately if Palestinians aren’t treated as equals. To end the cycle you need to make sure people aren’t vulnerable to extremism and a big part of that is making them feel like they matter and are valued. Israel’s role has always been significant and will be even important if they destroy Hamas and leave a vacuum of power/ideology. What that is replaced by is massively in their hands and so far I feel like they’ve made it harder to reconcile with the innocent people in Gaza - they’ve caused so much death and destruction.

Haha thank you

No harm in taking a break. We all know there’ll be plenty to discuss by this time tomorrow!

Oh definitely!

Even if he was a terrorist, killing 7 other innocent people to get to him is still abhorrent, and probably a war crime.

If you can justify a ratio of 7:1 (or more like 70:1 over the last 20 years) the israelis owe 5.6m of their innocent population to settle the score by their own logic.

It's a new day so I wanted to check if anyone still believes that Al Sharif was just a regular journalist rather than working for Hamas propaganda? Please bear in mind that this "journalist" never posted anything negative about Hamas - never, for example, even mentioned the accusation that they had been stealing aid.

The evidence, to recap:

Al Sharif posted on his own Telegram on Oct 7th 2023 late afternoon:
"9 hours and the heroes are still roaming the country killing and capturing...God, God, how great you are" with three green heart emojis.

The BBC reported that he worked for a Hamas media team in Gaza before the current conflict.

Hamas documents show that he was recruited by them in 2013, and served as commander of a rocket launching squad. According to these same documents, he was also listed on Hamas' payroll for an injury he has sustained in training.

Then there are the photographs of him from 2021, posing with the highest level of Hamas leadership, Khalil al-Hayya, Yahya Sinwar, and Nizar Awadallah.

.

No - i don't think he is and most of the Israeli 'evidence' is just propoganda. The CPJ who has access to the same 'evidence' also do not believe he is.

All that different evidence and you just say "No" - what are your considered reasons for discrediting it?

And also - why do you believe other things you read with less evidence such as the exact numbers of deaths each day (coming from Hamas)? Do you ever question anything that comes out of Gaza or just believe it as long as it is reflects badly on Israel?

It’s not Twitter it’s Telegram.

I know, I was showing the three twitter accounts as an example of how social media can be manipulated. I looked at his Telegram - could not find any pro Hamas material so I am not sure where people are getting there’s from as it’s not on his account.

The guy was on video reporting too every day for the last two years - hours and hours of tape and nothing to indicate he was a combatant or hanging out with Hamas - that is serious multi tasking.

It’s been taken down… there is a website that allows you to see archived material though which is what people are taking screenshots from.

He was working as a journalist but only reporting on what Hamas wanted him to report for the last 2 years - go figure.

No effort made to report one thing negative about Hamas, not even in the interest of appearing to be neutral or to show balance. Why? Even if we say the IDF are immoral, surely Hamas are too?

@Twiglets1 I don't know to be honest - it's naive to think there aren't lies and propaganda on both sides (which has been exacerbated by the lack of free press in Gaza).
However, there is no evidence that he was is a combatant, so not obviously a legitimate military target (although "support" personnel can be considered legitimate on a case-by-case basis). But it's very difficult to believe that all 270 journalists killed in Gaza since the start of the war were "Hamas" so it's rather difficult not to conclude that the IDF are specifically targeting them. And they had form for killing journalists even before 7/10.

I agree there are lies & propaganda on both sides. I think Hamas have been rather better at propaganda than the Israel government but they are paying closer attention to it now. Hence the belated decision to allow foreign journalists into Gaza which will I believe lead to a more mixed narrative.

I’m not sure whether he was a legitimate military target ( morally I believe he was if he was effectively working for Hamas). If support personnel can be considered legitimate targets in a war then that will be the argument Israel will use when this case undergoes investigation. I believe the UN has called for an independent investigation & I hope that happens.

I agree it’s unlikely that all the 270 journalists killed in Gaza were Hamas. Though it is likely that most ( possibly all) were sympathetic to Hamas or put simply, Hamas wouldn’t have allowed them to continue reporting in that way. They would have used the threats, intimidation and assaults that have been well documented to silence them. Being sympathetic to Hamas is not a legitimate reason to kill them though, we agree on that. I think this particular journalist was targeted because Israel believed him to be actively promoting Hamas in arguably a “support personnel “ role.

Just a snippet from the BBC but they say, “In some of his social media posts before his death, the journalist can be heard criticising Hamas.” So there must be some evidence of this out there.

It’s still a tricky one for me. The BBC also report he worked for the ‘Hamas media team’ before the conflict. I don’t know what this means - whether your only chance of being a journalist in Gaza is by working for Hamas (as part of the government) or whether he was a ‘die-hard’ member of Hamas and in charge of propaganda.

It’s impossible not to link him to Hamas, that’s for sure. But I find the lines blurred because Hamas is also the government (rather than just a terrorist organisation). To me, this means there could be innocent people with very obvious links to Hamas through their work. Does that make him or his colleagues guilty enough or a big enough threat to be bombed in their sleep (rather than tried and imprisoned)? I’m not sure it does.

@PinkBobby you make a very good point about the blurred lines, as "Hamas" is the official government, as well as the military wing. Those working in public services can be labelled as "Hamas" despite just getting on with their jobs in health, social care, education etc. And yes, journalists will generally have to be at least on the face of it supportive to Hamas to be able to operate in order to protect themselves (but that obviously doesn't mean they actively support them). And as you say @Twiglets1 certainly not a legitimate reason to kill them.

Meanwhile Netanyahu ( who actively manipulated the growth of Hamas) is doing the same with another mafia type Palestinian gang.

All Palestinians can be linked to Hamas.... surely?

Isn't that the justification for flattening the entire country and murdering 60,000 people?

I think that the problem with eliminating Hamas is that Hamas is a combination of truly bad people and people who joined to just ‘get ahead’ in life.

Hamas was the leadership and, if you wanted a good position of any sort, you had no choice but to join.

The West made the same mistake with the Ba’ath party in Iraq. The de’Ba’athification of Iraq left a power vacuum where there were no police or administrators, which then made Iraq incredibly hard to govern.

You would have thought that Israel might have learned from that.

I'm not sure that the algebra is correct.

As according to Hamas, one Israeli life is worth over a hundred Gazan lives ( even more) when it comes to release of hostages and prisoners.
And even if a released prisoner immediately uses his freedom to plan the largest pogrom since WW2.

So to split justice ( as Jamaicans would say), the IDF maths are mathing.

As distasteful as those maths may be.

But it is a mathematical construct approved by Hamas.

Hence it embedding itself with Gazans to the point of using them as shields and co conspirators and making sure that fertile women get on with producing more and more for the Gazan to Hamas pipeline.

"Peace" and relative autonomy takes away the need for Hamas and its rules for Gazans.

Each and more Gazan deaths was always the aim for Hamas.

No agitation. No reason for Hamas and Co to exist.

Relative peace gives open minded Palestinians too much time to maybe see themselves outside of the "Palestinian=Victim of Israel" construct.

Something that ALL pro Palestine people would be horrified by as their reason for being would be interrupted by the three dimensionalism that they accuse the Pro Israelis of refusing to afford Palestinians.

Not so much one Israeli life is worth over a hundred Palestinians
Israel holds thousands of Palestinians without trial.

It’s about being proportional.

Israel bombed the home of another journalist yesterday - Motasem Dalloul - he survived but 10 others were killed by the bomb. It seems for this next military phase they want to ensure there are no witnesses, no one left to speak for the people of Gaza. I hope remaining journalists find a place to hide from these monsters.

Monsters is the word.

The terrorists who get to be called the IDF.

That is extremely unusual if the journalist could indeed be heard criticising Hamas - do you or the BBC have any evidence of it? A screenshot will do for me from an archived post. You are someone who often asks for more evidence yourself so I wonder why you find it easy to believe this particular piece of news.

Join Hamas to get ahead in life ... an unkind person might ask how that worked out for them.

Gazans did have a choice to join Hamas or not. It's completely understandable that some may not have dared speak out against them, but join them to get a good position? No.