How is forced starvation allowed?

[Tinycatnoise]

The top story in the BBC right now is the starvation of Gazans by Israel. The images are horrifying and not dissimilar to seeing those images of concentration camps in Nazi Germany. I cried seeing those and am crying now. I am sure someone will claim antisemitism because of this statement, but anyone looking at these images of starving children would agree.

How is this still going on? I feel like we are watching a genocide take place that the world has turning a blind eye to. The daily shooting by Israel of people trying to get aid too is just barbaric. If nothing is being done to stop this, what is the next horror that will unfold in the world that people will just accept?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9xkx7vnmxo

What am I even reading. Of course children medical needs will starve to death first.

Hunger kills the most vulnerable first. How can anyone look at a child wearing a bin bag as a nappy who is starving to death due to a lack of special formula and say well he had an underlying medical condition.

The kind of malnutrition that children are experiencing will forever leave a mark on their bodies. They health is forever impacted. Their cognitive development is impacted. It can even affect the health of children that they go on to have in the future. We shouldn’t need to see large numbers of previously healthy children become living skeletons to say that blocking aid is wrong. The only response should be how do we get food to them.

Just to keep us all as close to the actual facts as possible Hamas didn’t actually win those elections in that they weren’t ever meant to be the sole ruling party. They got 44% of the vote (and didn’t win a majority in any district) v 41% for a more moderate party. A unity party was formed but Hamas then started killing members of their coalition partners and seized control. Gazans haven’t been able to vote since 2006.

I am curious as to why you only mentioned Israel on your post and failed to mention that Egypt is also refusing to allow aid to enter Gaza.

1dayatatime

This is such a blatant lie. Why bother lying about such obvious things.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckg42k37e2pt

@1dayatatime please share a source to back up your deliberate or mistaken lie that Egypt was or is refusing to allow aid into Gaza?

Okay, so say your random X stories can be verified and it’s not just your algorithm feeding you with misinformation that fits your narrative, that’s 2 out of the 2.4m under 18s in Gaza (fewer now as that figure is from 2023) that you’ve ruled out. Still waiting for you to prove all the other starving children are actually just part of a massive propaganda campaign (plus evidence that all the accounts of children starving are propaganda too).

I wouldn't bother engaging with such nonsense. If you step away from the posters hate filled x feed and look at more balanced articles including from sites that are generally more sympathetic towards Israel, All, if not almost all point out there is starvation in Gaza. Whilst they may differ on where the blame lies, I can't see any reputable MSM or organisation denying there is starvation in Gaza.

Actually tomato paste was fine, just not passata.

Cookies?
Pasta?
Coriander?

I'm not sure what Hamas' previous actions have got to do with whether cookies are a weapon? What a load of irrelevant twaddle your are pedaling.

Perhaps you can enlighten us all by explaining the military uses for cookies? And what makes rice ok but pasta clearly dangerous!!

You're totally right but someone else’s decision to ignore all that evidence doesn’t really affect me/my mood/my day etc. These discussions don’t make me mad, just confused so I’m happy to keep going. And my background means debating/political discussion is fairly enjoyable for me. No judgement if you find it all infuriating, by the way - I can totally understand stepping back from a thread like this, especially after reading some of the absolutely dehumanising comments people have made.

I want to keep asking questions in the hope they’ll either eventually provide me with such overwhelming evidence that I am totally wrong about what’s going on that my only option is to apologise profusely OR, just maybe, they’ll take a second to reflect on how strong an argument can be if they have no credible sources and how strange it is that they can’t verify the ‘facts’ they’ve been sharing.

Agree, also it was the George W. Bush administration during their era of "exporting democracy", that first enabled/encouraged Hamas to participate in the elections:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

Then after Hamas "won" instigated and supported a couple by Fatah aligned groups led by Muhammad Dahlan .

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/04/gaza200804?currentPage=all

@PinkBobby that's fair enough. It will be interesting to see how they try to disprove what even some Israeli ministers have admitted to.

A good thing to remember is if they're "keeping us busy" over here, that's one less person making inappropriate comments to Palestinians 🫣

True!

And I keep asking them to! I am totally open to being wrong, just need the evidence…

@BelleHathor exactly. My situation means all their hate, whilst disturbing, doesn’t ruin my day or fill me with rage. I’d rather they were debating on here with me than someone who is directly impacted by what’s going on. And, to be honest, I find it hard to leave a discussion when the ‘other side’ hasn’t presented a complete (evidence backed) argument. So I’ll hang around until some more of my questions are answered (and make sure that opinion isn’t being confused with fact).

These discussions don’t make me mad, just confused so I’m happy to keep going.

You're lucky it really upset me that people would 1. Minimise what is happening to children in Gaza and dismiss it as all as lefty/ Hamas exploitative propaganda and 2. Then claim anyone defending it are the mad unreasonable ones and joke about heading off to the pub together. Vile

And interesting to see how they expect anyone to take them seriously after this Israeli propaganda show

I will be honest, I do find it upsetting too. The one comfort I have is that I believe it's a minority of people who have such views.

❤️💐 Just think about it this way, yes it is vile, but it says more about the person posting such horrible things.......

The deflection part is just DARVO, once the pattern is recognised, try to ignore it.

It's very much a minority and every poll on the question shows it.

They are aggressive and hurtful precisely because they feel backed into a corner.

Chin up!

True I've seen a lot of posts online reminding people that every accusation is a confession.

I find it reassuring that many people just seem the disbelieve what is happening. It would be much worse if people believed it and supported it.

I can totally understand this and I don’t want people to think I feel emotionless towards the people actually suffering. Such posts used to affect me but now I just won’t waste emotional energy on people who cannot justify or provide proper evidence for their views (hatred). To me, it takes away all their power. I know enough about what’s going on in Gaza to believe Hamas and Israel are to blame and the impact they have both had on innocent people is horrific. My opinion is based on research and evidence across a range of sources and some critical thinking. I will keep asking questions and pushing for evidence for what they say in the hope that people who are unsure what to think will question about why they are silent when it comes to evidence. And maybe it’ll make some of them step back and reflect on the basis of their argument. And I’ll save any emotion for the victims as I’m sure there will be more tomorrow.

Footage of many starving babies on the BBC tonight. Has David Collier given his opinion on their medical status yet?

Keeping close to actual facts, Hamas did win the 2006 election, or is Al Jazeera not a credible source for pro-Palestinians.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2006/1/26/hamas-wins-huge-majority

But the fact is that the percentage of votes is what others have said and didn’t show a huge support for Hamas:

It was in January 2006 that the Palestinian territories held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45). Neither party was keen on sharing power. Fighting broke out between the two. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html