How is forced starvation allowed?

[Tinycatnoise]

The top story in the BBC right now is the starvation of Gazans by Israel. The images are horrifying and not dissimilar to seeing those images of concentration camps in Nazi Germany. I cried seeing those and am crying now. I am sure someone will claim antisemitism because of this statement, but anyone looking at these images of starving children would agree.

How is this still going on? I feel like we are watching a genocide take place that the world has turning a blind eye to. The daily shooting by Israel of people trying to get aid too is just barbaric. If nothing is being done to stop this, what is the next horror that will unfold in the world that people will just accept?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9xkx7vnmxo

Well you missed me then because I said the situation was a failure of Hamas, Israel, ngos and the international community.

The Palestinians being starved in Gaza are ordinary citizens. Women, children, babies.

Not just "wrong" but crazily wrong - the difference between 127 in total and 1000 this month alone. He is someone that people will listen to because of who he is.

Over 1000 were killed collecting aid I'm guessing he got the way they died mixed up as opposed to making up a figure. It may have been skynews who misquoted him. Whether they died trying to get aid or died of starvation both are linked to the wholly inadequate Israeli process of getting aid into Gaza.

That’s your solution? Look away for a while?

Shameful

It will easily reach 1000 unfortunately. Too many people, sick people, older people and babies and small children will need therapeutic food and other medical aid. Disease will also kill many of them as they won’t be able to fight off simple illness. We see other posters complaining that adults look well fed but the fact is that once people start to look starved, the situation, at a population level, is very difficult to roll back from.

But yes he might be talking about the numbers killed seeking aid. Either way I don’t think he is wilfully lying or trying to misrepresent things.

This

First of all shortages of food in Gaza, if as extreme as is claimed, will be affecting everyone including Hamas operatives and supporters. Unless Hamas do have a really effective sytem still for stealing the aid but we are told no aid has been getting through and Hamas arent really stealing aid. Please make it make sense.

Second my post was a response to Holocaust inversion. Yes, some Palestinian citizens are not implicated in Hamas. Some clearly are active supporters and soldiers for Hamas. The situation is entirely different. The Jewush people in Germany had never been involved in any harm to the German people and German state. They had not declared war, as Hamas did on 7 October.

Why do you feel the need to equivocate when it comes to Holocaust inversion? Any rational person should be able to see that the situation in Gaza is appalling but nothing to do with the Holocaust. Regardless of whether civilians are involved civilians are always involved.

And this.

Of course it will reach 1000

Or he could just be imagining a thousand people dying a month from lack of food because that is the impression he is getting from the news he reads and the social media he looks at?

Either way, not a reliable source on a discussion thread about starvation.

“If as extreme as is claimed.”

Says it all.

We see other posters complaining that adults look well fed but the fact is that once people start to look starved,
Not sure where they are even getting this. There was a report of a family on C4 news yesterday where their baby was very close to death, heartbreaking. The parents were also skin and bone.

No, I think the best thing they can do is accurately report deaths as it gives them legitimacy which is a way better PR move in the grand scheme of things. Hamas just telling the truth is much more damaging for Israel.

And again, many people who are ‘demonising’ Israel are doing so because of Israel’s actions not because they are dead set on hating the country. I judge them on the war crimes they have committed in response to the horrendous acts on 7 Oct. Of course they had to act but I think Israel would have an easier time PR wise if they stuck to international law and didn’t kill so many innocent people/destroy so much infrastructure/housing/restrict aid to the Gazans. You can blame Hamas overall for starting this wave of the conflict but Israel are ultimately to blame for the devastation because they could’ve done things differently and saved many lives.

I don't really want to speculate further on whether the number of deaths from lack of food will or won't reach or exceed 1,000 - it feels a bit ghoulish as none of us can see into the future.

Like many things - time will tell if the new steps now being taken to get aid into Gaza make a big difference. All I can say is that I hope this is a turning point.

Either way, not a reliable source on a discussion thread about starvation.
Who said he was a reliable source? His words are his own and his own reaction to what is happening his profile and his experience volunteering in famine areas and dealing with the provision of humanitarian aid means he understands more than most.

Not what I’ve seen on BBC/Channel 4 news either (I don’t look at social media). Everyone looks malnourished, including emergency workers and medical staff but still they carry on, doing what they can.

So you are holding Hamas responsible for 7 October but no responsibility for the level of civilian casualties despite the fact that they, not Israel, chose not to protect their civilians, and chose to fight this as a guerilla war, with hostages, human shields, booby trapped tunnels etc.

Why is it shameful to look away?

Serious question?

If I look too long at any atrocity that I've studied, I start to feel unbearably sad. That sadness is my empathizing with the sufferers. But what good does that really do? Speaking for myself, I start to feel angry at the world, hopeless, negative, full of inertia etc. Then I take myself away from said subject and cuddle my kids a little extra.

Our feelings of empathizing with victims are evolved adoptions to help us to live in large social groups, for our benefit. They are not evolved for watching the plight of people far away we cannot help. In fact, over empathizing with one group can lead to under empathizing with the other group, and not seeing the overall situation clearly.

When I look away, I try to put something positive into the world to try to redress the balance, its hard to explain.

But seriously. Why should I be ashamed to look away?

I don't really want to speculate further on whether the number of deaths from lack of food will or won't reach or exceed 1,000 - it feels a bit ghoulish as none of us can see into the future.
Ghoulish? It's common practice to predict number of deaths that could happen if x or y doesn't change. It's done in many different areas weird you find it ghoulish.

I know, I agree with you both. Everyone looks painfully thin now, it’s been happening over a long time.

I just heard a doctor talking on an interview, saying they are linked in with a hospital in Gaza and the staff are down to receiving one meal every two days.

I just think it's rare for Hamas to tell the truth (assuming they are in this case) and they have been caught out in the past telling lies (so have individual IDF soldiers, to be fair). Hamas even denied raping women on 7/10!

I believe that you try to see things with a balanced view, as do I. Not sure most people on the pro Palestine side see things the same way you do, though. From their comments, a lot of them are holding historic grievances against Israel and not just because of their actions in this conflict.

Hear, hear.

Israel rightly had the sympathy, prayers and good will of much of the world after the despicable attacks of 7 October.

Sadly some of that goodwill has dissipated directly as a result of the despicable actions of Netanyahu and his cabinet. He has no interest in the hostages or their families or in protecting innocent civilians in Gaza. His interest is avoiding a prison sentence for corruption. The longer this conflict continues, the longer he stays out of jail.

@Twiglets1
Just listened to clip on sky news of Bob Geldof being interviewed. He was talking about the GHF and people getting shot trying to get aid and then said I think at this point over 1000 people have died of starvation. I do think he meant to say killed and mixed it up because the context was he was talking about people being shot getting aid.

“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me”

Looking away is and always has been shameful.

Former PM of Israel was interviewed on Broadcasting House this morning, urging The PM of the UK and Trump to make Netanyahu understand that “enough is enough”, this has to stop.

Hear, hear. A voice of reason.

OK, good answer, fair point.

So you think i should force myself to look longer than is comfortable for me?