To think UN should now be in Gaza as a peacekeeping force

[ArtfulGoldWriter]

Seriously, when even the Daily Express are even calling mass forced starvation and putting pictures like this on their front pages.

Surely the UN could act as a peacekeeping force and stop this insanity?

Its obscene.

And the Americans, who are on the ground running, say this is complete bullshit and the UN and NGOs are refusing to distrubute it.

Yes, but the Americans on the ground are the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (founded in February), who have been widely criticized, and whose own original leader/CEO, Jake Wood, resigned in May, over significant ethical concerns.

His resignation statement:

"I am proud of the work I oversaw, including developing a pragmatic plan that could feed hungry people, address security concerns about diversion, and complement the work of longstanding NGOs in Gaza.

However, it is clear that it is not possible to implement this plan while also strictly adhering to the humanitarian principles of humanity, neutrality, impartiality, and independence, which I will not abandon.

I urge Israel to significantly expand the provision of aid into Gaza through all mechanisms, and I urge all stakeholders to continue to explore innovative new methods for the delivery of aid, without delay, diversion or discrimination.

I continue to believe the only sustainable path for the long-term is for Hamas to release all hostages, for there to be a cessation of hostilities, and a pathway for peace, security, and dignity for all people in the region.”

Essentially, even its own leader acknowledged and echoed the UN's concerns about GHF's operations. The UN remains willing to work with GHF if they actually start distributing aid in a safe an humanitarian way.

And, per the last page, USAID separately found there to be no real credibility to the "its Hamas" accusations.

I hope you recognize me from other threads (I believe we have interacted) as being far from an anti-Israel zealot, but even the Americans dont seem to believe the Americans, and ultimately seem to be pointing the finger at Israel.

Meant to quote @Voxon

All these placatory messages to the Palestinians from the West are actually hardening Hamas's line in negotiations as they feel they are gaining traction with western popuoations. In other words from a negotiating point of view Hamas feel they can withdraw with the hope of better terms as the West presurises Israel. In other words embracing Hamas propaganda could actually perversely extend the war.

At this point, it's not worth the risk of you being wrong. This is potentially just the start of a massive humanitarian catastrophe. We're past the point of abstract argument.

Exactly as demonstrated on this very thread people have fallen for the 'Israel are starving dc' stories instead of recognising it is all in hamas favour to make their own people suffer and blame Israel.

Hamas need to surrender as is the norm in a conflict where one side is losing.

Love to see some celebs say 'hamas surrender for your people's sake' but nope, it's all 'the IDF is doing a famine'.

Whether you believe Israel, Hamas or a mixture of both are to blame @Gloriiado you believe that people in Gaza are dying of starvation?

I keep asking but you keep answering without making it clear whether you believe people are starving to death.

I've answered you that of course there will be shortages and malnourishment, it is sadly common in a warzone. Have you heard about the Yemen and Syria malnutrition problems?

I'll ask you a question now. Why would the IDF want to starve civilians, they actually warned them of strikes and have done their utmost to reduce civilian casualties but hamas hide among them as every civilian death is a bonus point for them.

Can you really not see that hamas are a terrorist organisation, they could not care less about their own people and will be loving this 'Israel is doing a famine' blame from some people lapping it all up.

Hamas is the problem and always has been.

Firstly let me be clear. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organisation. They are abhorrent murderers and undoubtedly antisemitic and I don’t support them in any way. It is unfair to accuse people of supporting Hamas whenever they express the belief that Israel’s current actions are immoral.

I believe Hamas is an abhorrent terrorist organisation and that Israel’s current actions are wrong. These are not mutually exclusive positions.

Yes, Israel has issued warnings for some airstrikes, but that doesn’t change the reality that they’ve also bombed areas they told civilians would be “safe” and even attacked convoys of people fleeing to those supposedly safe zones. There are documented cases where civilians were directed to evacuate, only to be targeted afterward.

Warnings do not absolve responsibility when there is no real place for people to go and when “safe zones” become targets.

On top of that, a blockade of food, water, and fuel isn’t an accident, it’s a deliberate policy that creates famine and suffering, regardless of whether it’s framed as a tactic against Hamas. Starving an entire population is collective punishment, which is illegal under international law.

Yes, Hamas is absolutely responsible for atrocities, and you’re absolutely right that they do exploit civilian suffering. That doesn’t erase Israel’s choices or the fact that their military strategy treats civilian lives as expendable.

Both can be true: Hamas is a terrorist organisation and Israel is committing actions that amount to war crimes.

The reason I pushed so hard for an answer on whether you believe people are starving to death in Gaza is that you used the phrase “the starvation myth” upthread which suggested you fundamentally didn’t believe people are starving there. I’m glad to see that you do recognise that is happening, whoever you believe is to blame.

As to why they would ‘want’ to starve civilians, I believe they simply see them as collateral damage and I am also conscious of the on the record rhetoric of a number of Israeli politicians who make it clear that they see even Palestinian children as complicit and not innocent.

Quote from Amichai Eliyahu, in 2023, when he was a serving cabinet minister:

“There is no such thing as uninvolved civilians in Gaza.” He also said “that is one way” when asked if nuclear bombs were a possibility in the conflict.

Netanyahu suspended him from attending cabinet meetings, calling the remarks “detached from reality” and “unhelpful.”

But Eliyahu remained Heritage Minister in the government and kept his portfolio. He was never dismissed from the cabinet entirely.

So essentially Netanyahu publicly condemned the statement to manage international backlash, but politically he kept Eliyahu in his ministerial position.

These are not the words and actions of people who see Palestinian children as innocents, nor the words of actions of people who are genuinely doing everything in their power to limit civilian suffering from things like starvation.

The UN have always stated this but Israel have always claimed Hamas are stealing aid without ever providing any evidence for it. Posters here also repeat the lies ad nauseum. It has been an exercise in discrediting the humanitarian organisations providing aid and taking control of it themselves through the GHF and what is happening now is a result of that. When Netanyahu was blocking aid back in March he knew pictures of starving children would not go down well in the west so GHF was set up to allow the bare minimum in

I don't think I said that you supported hamas? Please c&p and I'll retract. What I did say is that they are a terrorist organisation quite happy to let their own people suffer as opposed fo the IDF who have always warned civilians and tried ro reduce casualties.

Again, Ive said throughout that malnourishment will be a problem in a warzone.

Humanitarian aid is there the un and hamas should be getting it out but I bet hamas are just loving the headlines so not much incentive for them is there?

I know which side I believe could not care less about civilians suffering.

Yes, but I do think its signifant that even US agencies and GHF staff are increasingly undermining the Israeli government's claims, making accusations of inhumane actions and war crimes.

There were always be some extremists and hyper-partisans (and some people who have personal trauma that makes their hyper-partisanship more understandable) but there has been a notable shift in the last week or so.

It seems a lot of the IDF have dehumanised Palestinians to the point that killing them is just sport at this stage. Just look at the news:
all the hospitals levelled;
doctors reporting that on any given day teenage boys are being shot in a specific body part like it’s a sadistic game - one day arms another day it was testicals;
IDF soldiers reporting that they have witnessed other soldiers and commanders commit war crimes - including a commander who grabbed a four year old playing in his garden and broke his arms and legs and then stomped on him repeatedly in front of his troops;
paramedics executed and their vehicles crushed and buried in the sand;
doctors imprisoned and raped to death;
people told to go to “safe zones” where they are then bombed;
houses of journalists and doctors bombed;
all the farmland taken and turned into kill zones followed with an aid blockaid;
a small amount of aid allowed into very limited sites where people are then shot for sport as they wait for aid.

Now an ex US soldier with video of them shooting at crowds of starving people and shouting out cheerfully “I think I hit one”. How many witnesses, video footage and dead bodies do we need to see that the IDF are a sadistic force torturing the local population for support. The four year old was not Hamas, the countless dead and dismembered children are not Hamas - stop victim blaming and look at the evidence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cy8k8045nx9o

Do the statements coming out of the GHF (its former heard, on resignation-in-protest), and this recent interview from a former member, cause you any meaningul concern or doubt?

https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cy8k8045nx9o

I'd love to believe that Israel wasnt currently engaging in an active and terrible choices but I've passed my incredulity threshold.

I’ve noted that you’ve used the phrase “malnourishment” twice but you have not admitted that children and adults in Gaza are starving to death.

Nick Maynard’s recent interview about confiscating baby formula was sickening but he went on to describe how one week they would see children just shot to the head, then the following week gunshot injuries to the testicle and then to another specific body part. IDF is killing for sport and it’s reached a new level that international lawyers are calling for the definition of genocide to be revised, that’s how serious it is.

Gloriia you’ve worked hard peddling the well known and used/abused propaganda points on this thread but no one really believes you. Despite spending millions on influencing foreign press and social media the tide is still against Israel for what it is doing.

www.timesofisrael.com/foreign-ministry-to-receive-massive-budget-for-public-diplomacy-abroad/amp/

oh look, a British doctor saying that Israel are confiscating baby formula and commenting how unimaginable the injuries are in the hospitals he has worked in in Gaza- but nothing to see here…
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMhuGcluj-A/?igsh=MWZ6YXdnNGdpczE0Zg==

Maybe Hamas could compromise on the peace negotiations to bring an end to it all?

I repeat, collective punishment is illegal under international law.

Both sides feel like it’s an existential threat for them. Unfortunately right now, that looks like it will be true for the people of Palestine. Devastating.

This.

Exactly.